Am i getting in over my head?

Problems, ideas and comments specific to engine swaps.
chongmang
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Am i getting in over my head?

Post by chongmang »

Im 22, own a 72 2 door and my l18 just shat out on me. My dad is pretty mechanically inclined but works out of state. Im good with body work and fab, not as good with engines. Ive done the research on KA swap, have the write-ups and step by steps. But, i have never done anything like it before. Am i wasting my money and time thinking i can get this thing done without having done something similar before? is there anyone in the san fernando valley/ LA region that would be willing to help me out?
qwik510
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by qwik510 »

Depending on what swap parts you decide to use, the swap should be doable even with average mechanical skills. Buying a crossmember that is already made to accept the engine will make the engine a bolt in. An experimental engineering trans crossmember will add to the bolt in factor. Once the motor and trans are bolted in place, then you will have several major components of the swap to do

Fuel system.
You will need to install some type of fuel injection fuel pump that will provide the fuel pressure needed for the engine and at least one new fuel line large enough to provide the fuel. You can use the existing fuel feed line as a return line if it is in good shape. Read up on what others have used.

Cooling System
There are plenty of radiators that are now available to provide enough cooling for the swap. Most people have figured out the hoses too so this should not be difficult.

Air Intake
Plenty of kits on ebay so this is not hard.

Exhaust System
Any competent exhaust shop can fabricate a system for you.

Drive Shaft
It will need to be shortened and balanced. Most major cities have shops that can do it.

Wiring
The hardest part will be the wiring and there is plenty of documentation about that. Take your time and get a copy of the wiring diagrams available for the KA and if needed, get some help with this part.

Brakes and Suspension
Both the brakes and the suspension will need to be upgraded to handle the additional power and weight of the new motor. Plenty of choices here too.
Do Not Skip This Step. Having a 510 with more power requires better brakes.

The best way to make sure the project will be a success is to develop a plan. Make a list of all the steps and all the parts needed and how much all of it will cost and then add 50% to the costs and make sure you can afford it. I have a project board in the garage for my swap and I have all the steps listed on one side and all the stuff I need to buy on the other. As I complete a section, it feels great to be able to cross off a section from the board.

If you break it down into smaller steps, it should be a project you can take on.

Good Luck.
Enjoy The Ride!
David
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mlanderson2285
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Location: Grand Junction CO

Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by mlanderson2285 »

Since this is opened up and I am thinking of the same thing and I cant find it what is a simple low cost motor brakes suspension going to cost on this I have read many write ups here on the ka but have not found someone who's said i did this and it costed this. It seems the ka is the cheapest FI swap but still have not seen exact cost guidelines.
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.-Winston Churchill
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okayfine
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by okayfine »

chongmang wrote: i have never done anything like it before. Am i wasting my money and time thinking i can get this thing done without having done something similar before?
How do you feel about this write-up:
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13589

Everyone has their first engine swap, so no one has done something like that before the first time they do something like that. That said, if your 510 is your DD, or you're pressed for time, or space, it might be a trick to pull off.

If money isn't an issue, then you can buy ready-made parts for the job (as Qwik510 suggests) that will save time and hassle, especially if you aren't experienced in metal fab or don't have the tools. But if money isn't an issue, then you can hand a wad of cash to someone and have them do the work.

To be able to honestly answer your question, we'd have to know more about you, your skills, budget, etc. Simply because you haven't done a swap before is no reason to think you couldn't do a swap.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
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okayfine
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by okayfine »

mlanderson2285 wrote: I have read many write ups here on the ka but have not found someone who's said i did this and it costed this.
And you will not.

If you've searched for that type of topic then you've inevitably found someone (usually me) saying that there does not exist a single comprehensive how-to-install-KA write-up anywhere. They don't exist. They don't exist for many reasons, but typically every single swap is done differently. People, especially 510 owners, are individuals and since much is custom when swapping in an EFI engine, there will be no consensus, beyond a basic list of what must be done such as what Qwik510 has posted above.

Additionally, costs vary dramatically. What it costs me to do something (based on what I can do myself, what supplies cost in my locale, etc.) has very little bearing upon what it might cost you to do something. Since very little of a swap is typically purchased outright, the vast majority of the cost is going to come down to how much you are doing yourself. Labor is riduculously expensive.

For each of Qwik510's categories above, research and select the pieces you want to use for your swap. Tally those costs, and you have a general idea of total costs. But keep in mind, installation is not included, and the categories above are general and certainly not all-inclusive.

This is why I continue to caution people to keep their cars running. A swap can be performed in a week or two, but it can also end your car as a runner.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
chongmang
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Location: Chatsworth, CA

Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by chongmang »

I make decent money, so i will be able to buy the parts i need. But i would still like to do the work myself, even if you guys are helping me. Time wise, if i could get it done in the next year id be happy. I have tools, space, my fabrications not bad. I will write it all out and make a solid timeline and plan before i take a whack at it.
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kayakdude07
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by kayakdude07 »

I did the KA swap last year in my car, my first car. It is a doable swap. Listen to the people here, read the builds and all the info you can find. It takes some work though and you can't get discouraged. I managed to do the swap in 9 months while completing grade 12 with a 95 average. It is very doable.
Cost-wise it depends where you are, KAs are very cheap here in the Fraser Valley, I bought a smacked auto car running and driving just rebuilt for 700 and a motor w/5speed clutch etc for 100.
That's 800 for motor ECU harness etc.
280zx struts w/brakes about $100.
drive shaft shorten and balance $111.
Rad $120, VW overflow tank with custom plumbing $20.
Relays etc for wiring $20.
The in-tank fuel pump and lines were from the 240sx i had so that is included.
The air intake is still stock and works fine.
The exhaust was a combination from the 240sx and the 2inch exhaust from my car, all welded by me= free.
All fab work done by myself with some help from my dad= free.

TOTAL~$1200
After all that there is still a 240sx with a spare KA and auto tranny to part out. :)
Overall it's a cheap and doable swap. Your main difference in cost would be from outsourced labor and the cost of the engine/transmission.

Hope that helps a bit
Jordan || '72 2 door KA project || '72 2 door goon project- Flintstones powered (dad's)
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okayfine
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by okayfine »

chongmang wrote:I make decent money, so i will be able to buy the parts i need. But i would still like to do the work myself, even if you guys are helping me. Time wise, if i could get it done in the next year id be happy. I have tools, space, my fabrications not bad. I will write it all out and make a solid timeline and plan before i take a whack at it.
That all sounds viable. A KA swap isn't rocket science, and has been done a hundred times already. There's tons of information on here, as well as people who have done it. Try to plan out what you'll need to buy, what you can make/do yourself, and dig into all the little things that trip people up. "oaklandsyd" had a long thread here that was initially going to be a one-stop write up, but turned into a lengthy debugging thread as his project turned complicated. See what he went through, and be prepared.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
banzai510(hainz)
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by banzai510(hainz) »

I say keep the L motor. If you cant get that going then dont do a KA. I 510 with a L motor on the road is better than a KA/SR/RB project that never gets done.

Help is relative in the 510 world.. Only person I really see go out of there way is Jeff Hino (icehouse)to help get KAs/SRs running. Personally go to their house.!!!!!
Unless you have soembody near by as a last minute back up you could have a down car for awhile.
Thats is you have all good stuff and harness all set up/ecu good also. Who know what you get on the used market.

a decent L20 with sidedraft is a good upgrade and can be done at home with a head swap(head all set up of coarse) carbs. and be a fun car to drive.

olddatsuns.com
mlanderson2285
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by mlanderson2285 »

Most KA24DEs bound for the US were built in the Mexican city of Aguascalientes, with the exceptions of the 240SX and 1994-97 Altima (rebadged Bluebird SSS), which were manufactured in Fukuoka Prefecture, Japan. Sooo is the Japan one better?
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.-Winston Churchill
iceD
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by iceD »

Yes

ice D

ps: answer to original question.
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okayfine
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by okayfine »

mlanderson2285 wrote:Most KA24DEs bound for the US were built in the Mexican city of Aguascalientes, with the exceptions of the 240SX and 1994-97 Altima (rebadged Bluebird SSS), which were manufactured in Fukuoka Prefecture, Japan. Sooo is the Japan one better?
Truck KAs were built in Mexico. 240SX KAs were built in Japan. No one here deals with the Altima KA.

The truck and 240SX KA are different, aside from being built in different countries. The truck KA cams and ECU are biased towards low-end torque and produce some fewer HP at peak. 240SX KA would be the way to go.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
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hang_510
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by hang_510 »

chongmang wrote:Am i wasting my money and time thinking i can get this thing done without having done something similar before? is there anyone in the san fernando valley/ LA region that would be willing to help me out?
i would... if you weren't in the valley! :lol:


:idea: trade body work for swap work???
im gathering the last bits for my KA build/swap (which ive never done either)

im w/banzai and keeping an L for now.
byron wrote:I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie.
okayfine wrote:Sense doesn't always have everything to do with it, and I speak from experience.
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gbean
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by gbean »

I keep thinking about a swap. I keep saying I would like to do it.
I have the skills necessary to make it happen.

I also have an L18 that was fully rebuilt 28k miles ago and runs like a champ, so it seems wasteful for me to get rid of it.
I upgraded my brakes/front suspension first. I hate to see people put more power in a car and not do anything else for safety or handling improvements.
On the fun roads up hear in the North Bay, if your handling and braking suck, then any effort you put into extra power is wasted.

Now on to continue my wilwood caliper/300zx hub upgrade from the heavy 280zx stuff on it now....
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
-Isaac Asimov
FlyingO
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Re: Am i getting in over my head?

Post by FlyingO »

If you don't know what you are doing---pay someone to do it and blame them if things don't work right. I know that sounds harsh but--------
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