Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Problems, ideas and comments specific to engine swaps.
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chunstone
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Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by chunstone »

At the 2012 Canby show there was a beautiful orange wagon that had a turbo VG30w. The owner had a dyno sheet that claimed north of 500 rwhp and a drive train snapping 600+ torque!! Very beautiful engine with Pathfinder intake, coil fire ignition, etc. I looked at the 4 link rear end and thought that I would see at least a Ford 8 inch, but it looked like a H-190.

Not knowing appropriate questions to ask, I moved on. Just before leaving, I conversed with Kelvin very briefly, and he questioned it also. A Google search of "vg30 500 hp" did indeed make me think it was possible, but renewed the above question, with that kind of HP and TQ what would be good reasons for anyone to do an SR turbo swap? Lighter engine? Better weight distribution? Easier install? less expensive parts, etc....

When the car entered the show on Sunday, I listened to the exhaust, and it sounded fairly quiet, and not a lot of sputtering. I would think that you would have to have huge cams, and the car would be spitting aggressively.

Maybe the builder with come forward. Or If anyone, with more engine savvy than I, found out the secret recipe, would you please share it.

I also saw a white wagon from Canada, and the owner boasted 190 HP, 97 Pathfinder intake and ignition, which I can totally believe,

Maybe someone can download some photos.

Wow! That has to be the most horsepower of any street driven Datsun on the planet!
4 link VG30 wagon, Stage 2 cams PP heads headers.
170 hp-180 tq
Call Doug at UP Motors, Tacoma, "engine swap elite"
sssr20det510
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by sssr20det510 »

Its all a matter of what one likes, the vg is heavier. Lets face it 500hp in a 510 will be scary. You can make 500 hp out of an sr you could also throw a ls1 in there with a few bolt ons and get 500 hp. Its all about personal preference.
HudsonMC
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by HudsonMC »

Not to diminish the accomplishment of a 500 HP VG, but I doubt it's driven regularly at 500 HP. They probably dialed up the boost and used race gas, methanol, water, whatever, etc. for the dyno runs, and then provided the owner with a more mild tune for street driving. Sometimes these sorts of setups have the capability to switch between tunes at the owner's discretion with a switch on the dash. I'm sure it's still a ridiculous amount of power in the "street" tune.
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S15DET
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by S15DET »

I, too, am questioning that the VG30 is lighter?
WOW, that's a lot of power!
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bertvorgon
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by bertvorgon »

That was Deni's white wagon, which I can attest to really does make a real world 190+hp on the so called heart break dyno, at Rocket Rally Motorsports. We had a dyno day there.

Denis's car just flies with that HP, having had him follow me on many of our "scenic" tours. It sounds awesome too!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
sssr20det510
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by sssr20det510 »

S15DET wrote:I, too, am questioning that the VG30 is lighter?
WOW, that's a lot of power!
A12 87 kg 192 lbs
A14 93 kg 205 lbs
2ZZ-FE 97 kg 210 lbs
L18 118 kg 260 lbs
CA18ET 118 kg 260 lbs
QR25DE 121 kg 267 lbs
CA18DET 128 kg 282 lbs
E1 138 kg 304 lbs
SR20DE 139 kg 306 lbs
SR20DET 149 kg 328 lbs
FJ20ET 166 kg 366 lbs
Z20 157 kg 346 lbs
KA24DE 167 kg 368 lbs (estimated)
VG30 166 kg 360 lbs
VQ35 alloy engine 142 kg 313 lbs
VG30DETT 277 kg 510-610 lbs
Ford 2.8 V6-60 138 kg 305 lbs
Ford 3.8 V6-90 159 kg 351 lbs
Ford 3.0 SHO V6-60 211 kg 465 lbs
Ford 3.2 SHO V8-60 177+ kg 390+ lbs
Rover 3500 (215 cu. in.) V8 144 kg 318 lbs
Buick/Olds/Pontiac Alloy 3.5-liter (215 cu. in.) V8 145 kg 318 lbs
Ford 5.0 204 kg 450 lbs
Chevrolet Small Block V8 250 kg 550 lbs
Chevy Gen-III Alloy 6.0-litre (LS2) 220 kg 485 lbs
Chevy Gen-III Alloy 7-litre (LS7) 208 kg 458 lbs
Hemi 392 337 kg 745 lbs
cjr198car
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by cjr198car »

I make 376whp and 404wtq on my VG30E with about 19psi. I dont think I would turn up the power anymore (Although I do have plenty of fuel/Ignition for more power).

An SR might need a better headgasket, a big turbo plus a better manifold, and fuel to make 400whp where as A handful of Z31 guys have made 400+whp on stock block, heads, gaskets, and manifolds (exhaust/intake) VG30E (larger turbo and adequate fuel).

Here's a real world example...My 510 with 400wtq doing a 4th gear pull (top speed in 4th is about 125mph) passing someone thats already traveling at highway speeds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yfj5g13 ... r_embedded

An SR would be easier to plumb...looks cleaner to some, but I like the VG30 since I can find one any day of the week if I blow mine up...and its unique (in my opinion).

My .02 cents.
HRH
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by HRH »

What management are you running with that VG? I'm debating motor choices for the next 510, I've found a very interesting option. The VQ30DET, which is all aluminum, Japan only out of late model Cedrics and Glorias. Contacted one engine importer so far, hasn't been able to get it. According to wikipedia (if you believe all that) it makes 270 hp in stock trim. More than enough for my tastes, though 500 would also be nice. :)
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icehouse
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by icehouse »

HRH wrote:What management are you running with that VG? I'm debating motor choices for the next 510, I've found a very interesting option. The VQ30DET, which is all aluminum, Japan only out of late model Cedrics and Glorias. Contacted one engine importer so far, hasn't been able to get it. According to wikipedia (if you believe all that) it makes 270 hp in stock trim. More than enough for my tastes, though 500 would also be nice. :)
Hook up Megasquirt dude! Affordable and works killer. I just got done installing a Power FC I honestly don't see why it cost so much. Yeah it's basically plug and play but it's not very intuitive which for the money I think it should be. That's why we all pay extra for a Mac over a PC right?
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goichi1
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by goichi1 »

You should have asked the owner there at the show, not wait till it's over then try and question him here. Obviously he don't have a build thread here so why would he have to come here to explain anything?? I wish I would have went to the show but I can say that the pics of that wagon, and I've seen a lot of them in the last few days, looks really nice! Someone did what looks like an outstanding job on that wagon, very nicely done. As for the HP numbers, sure that's possible, anything is possible if you know what you are doing. Your wagon can make that power too if you had the knowledge and know how to work on the car. I'm sure with the money you have spent on your wagon, it should be able to take off and fly across country. But we know that's not always the case.
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chunstone
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by chunstone »

Come on Gouchi, a personal attack on me and my car? Does not seem like you. I'm sorry if I insulted any SR swaps. Not my intention.
500 hp is big and I enjoy seeing someone make it with a VG engine. That was one beautiful wagon!!
4 link VG30 wagon, Stage 2 cams PP heads headers.
170 hp-180 tq
Call Doug at UP Motors, Tacoma, "engine swap elite"
goichi1
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by goichi1 »

I don't think I was attacking you or you wagon. I just remember you complaining about most of those who worked on it. So why would you want to explore 500+HP?? I remember you having a very hard time with just getting it running right, so if I were you I would just enjoy the car as it is. Did you ever get it running better?
Last edited by goichi1 on 14 Jun 2012 22:44, edited 1 time in total.
HRH
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by HRH »

icehouse wrote:
HRH wrote:What management are you running with that VG? I'm debating motor choices for the next 510, I've found a very interesting option. The VQ30DET, which is all aluminum, Japan only out of late model Cedrics and Glorias. Contacted one engine importer so far, hasn't been able to get it. According to wikipedia (if you believe all that) it makes 270 hp in stock trim. More than enough for my tastes, though 500 would also be nice. :)
Hook up Megasquirt dude! Affordable and works killer. I just got done installing a Power FC I honestly don't see why it cost so much. Yeah it's basically plug and play but it's not very intuitive which for the money I think it should be. That's why we all pay extra for a Mac over a PC right?
Haha, yeah, works great if you're a computer guy and like wiring! ;) I might have to plan a trip over there or something. I'm still intimidated by it. Once I get an engine in the 510 though, I'm going to have to do something. Planning on a wire tuck and the whole nine yards eventually. I'll definitely be giving you a call.
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RonM
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by RonM »

If I were going to try and answer this thread question without starting a pissing match I'd say something to the effect of comparing apples and oranges. On that note, if we're talking about these motors for use in a 510 drag-goon vs a slalom sedan then we've just entered a whole new bowl of fruit. However seeing's how I just spent sick $ stuffing an s13 SR under my hood I'm prepared to take sides, let the testosterone fly and defend the venerable SR.

When I started my build I fantasized about an H1 V8 twin Hayabusa. 12,000 RPM redllne and 450 hp. naturally aspirated. :twisted: The $25,000 price tag proved too ill. My next fantasy power plant was a VG30DETT. I started researching and although I found nothing in the way of after market swap support for the 510 I was driven to get the big hp, thinking 6 is better than 4 by 50%. My research led me to David Rebello. He builds some seriously competitive Datsun/Nissan motors, two of which hold world records. I spoke to him about putting a VG in my Troy Earmish built chassis and he talked me out of it. I told him I wanted a street-able auto-X car with spooky power and was considering the VG30. Dave said that the aluminum block VG (the light one) does not hold up to sustained big hp., and the older iron block VG would ruin the weight balance. He went on to say that the VG's hp to $ ratio was not in the same league as the SR. "The stock SR block can handle 450 hp (the number I told him I was shooting for) all day and do it with a smile on it's face". The truth is, that VG torque gain is all but useless in a 2000lbs street car for anything other than a dyno score card. Hell I've seen an SR20 pull 800hp on a mustang dyno, but what's the point if you cant use it. This isn't pokemon where you flash a card to win.

In short Chunstone you've answered your own question " What would be good reasons for anyone to do an SR turbo swap? Lighter engine? Better weight distribution? Easier install? less expensive parts, etc...." There's a reason the SR is more popular than the VG in the tuner crowd, drifting, and on the drag strip, it's because The SR is better. :P Now let the pissing begin!
Sometimes people loose touch with subjectivity, because they've got they're heads stuck too far up they're own,,, Reality.
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S15DET
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Re: Over 500 HP with a VG30, why go with a SR?

Post by S15DET »

Oooooo, no you didn't (head shake).

I too have drooled over the Powertec and H1 twin-busa.
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