Cranking issue

Paint, body preparation and modification, interior work and electrical
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bertvorgon
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby bertvorgon » 08 Dec 2016 07:28

For what it is worth, they ( the first re-builders) did put a new solenoid on.

It is freak'in freezing in the back of the plant right now, but as soon as it warms up a bit, I am going to put EVERYTHING back together, cleaned, and start again ( pun intended).

If no go, I will put in Robyn's starter and see what happens..

I still am going to get a load test done on my battery...just because and it cost nothing.

I also have put into place my ARMSTRONG starter system, retro fitting the front pulley with one from a 1948 Austin A-40 ( of which I once owned) along with the crank handle. I use to start my Austin with that on occasion. I have asked Santa Claus for a gym membership, so I can get my right arm stronger, as cranking the 10:0 compression, could be an issue, I think the compression on the Austin was down to 7:1 before it finally died on me.......
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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RMS
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby RMS » 08 Dec 2016 08:20

no thread jack
Chickenman wrote:You still battling with the wagon Robyn?


no that was bad gas :x

I cant seem to get the duals to stop choking and spiting on the 68. no thread jack

Keith let me know when you start tripping over the excess starters and I will come take them away.
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

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bertvorgon
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby bertvorgon » 08 Dec 2016 08:32

I will Robyn, I am staying on this project till finished, I do not want to be fighting this in the spring.

I have pulled one starter out, which I will buy as a spare anyhow, let me know what you want for it.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Chickenman
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby Chickenman » 08 Dec 2016 09:10

bertvorgon wrote:For what it is worth, they ( the first re-builders) did put a new solenoid on. (Snip)


I'll bet you a Starbucks it was a POS off shore brand... You can't get anything of quality these days.

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RMS
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby RMS » 08 Dec 2016 09:23

the convenience of the bertvorgon datsun parts shipping program is much appreciated, the starter is free
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

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66DUCE
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby 66DUCE » 08 Dec 2016 13:17

Good call on load testing the battery before you put it back in the vehicle, cleaning all connections on both ground and positive side will also eliminate any voltage drop. I realize that when you bypassed all the wiring in the car and the starter did the same thing pointed to the starter. Remember a re builder will only bench test a starter (no load) and any issues (like high resistance) may not show up as in cranking a high compression engine. As mentioned by another poster there could be corrosion/ burned terminal on the solenoid that will not show up on a bench test but will show up on cranking the engine. Again careful voltage drop of each component on the pos/neg side should show you where your problem is.

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bertvorgon
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby bertvorgon » 08 Dec 2016 16:09

I agree with you, as I drove away..I realized that he did not do any sort of load test, so of course it spun just fine.....
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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bertvorgon
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby bertvorgon » 13 Dec 2016 16:33

Well, here is the final outcome, after chasing my tail in some ways.

Made an assumption that my starter was re-built two years ago, must be good! Period..simple as that.

I put in the starter Robyn has kindly donated to the Great Rolling Dyno...and it cranked like it has not in a long time...PERIOD.

I put all my spark wires on today and it lit off in an instant and that was at 39F. ambient temp.. I would suggest that the starter had issues not long after it was rebuilt, as I put my warrantied NEW battery in at the same time. I keep a log book and it was not long after that that my cold(ambient) first start of a day would give me an occasional issue.

Obviously a NON-LOAD starter test proves nothing..YUP the motor spins...big deal..but it produces no TORQUE.

I phoned the guy that tested it and he thinks it may be a bad spot on the armature, we will see. I am going to take it in and get him to take it a part and hopefully fix it, and that will let us know for future reference.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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RMS
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby RMS » 13 Dec 2016 17:29

good to hear the the issue has been sorted. helping you out with a starter validates my give a core take a core efforts.
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

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bertvorgon
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby bertvorgon » 13 Dec 2016 19:07

Yah, thanks Robyn, that puppy is just going to stay in the car now. I put it up and jack stands today, this year is DONE!

I have a headlight project for the winter, plus the usual nut and bolt check.

Stay tuned for the year in review and 2017.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Re: Cranking issue

Postby 510rob » 13 Dec 2016 19:42

bertvorgon wrote:I have a headlight project for the winter, plus the usual nut and bolt check.

Is it already time to give those babies a top-up of halogen fluid?

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James
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby James » 14 Dec 2016 05:57

bertvorgon wrote: he thinks it may be a bad spot on the armature.



This would make sense, as the armature may land in that bad spot one time out of 5. Glad you figured it out!
Finished is better than perfect......

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bertvorgon
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby bertvorgon » 14 Dec 2016 07:22

Thanks, I just hate electrical problems.

Re the headlight project. Ever since I saw Byron's crazy bright lights at Knox, I have wanted to do the proper upgrade for better night lighting. As many of our drives both start and finish in the dark, it's time for it.

Back in May, I started looking at options, trying to make sure I was not missing something modern. I was not convinced that LED's were that good yet and ultimately am still on that thought. They are bright, but, the lense's still do not project as good as I want.

I stumbled onto a fellow down in the States, who seems to have it together as to what would WORK IN MY 510 ( and lighting in general in my opinion). In the new year I am going to bite the bullet and order what he has recommended and will report on how well that goes.

Our CDN dollar has gotten a bit better, so the pain will not be as bad.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Chickenman
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby Chickenman » 14 Dec 2016 08:47

Have you looked at Cibies Keith? Still the Gold standard for lighting. Was it Daniel Stern lighting that you contacted? If not you should have a look at his site.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/

Lens design and reflector design ar just as important, or more important, than bulbs. Accuracy in cut off is a priority and Cibies excel at that.

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bertvorgon
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Re: Cranking issue

Postby bertvorgon » 14 Dec 2016 09:07

Hey Richard,

Yes, it was Daniel, I had a LONG discussion with him. Very interesting for sure.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer


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