Tension Control Rods for 510

[PbBrian82]

I just wanted to know what the heck adjustable tension control rods are....and why they would need to be ugraded. Obviously at least Technotoytuning thinks they should be upgraded, but what are the reasons and benefits of this.

Also, same question for the tie rod ends...

thanks. Hope you can help.

[defdes]

They allow you to run additional caster which is good for straight line stability and camber turn in.
Tie rods are already adjustable, it's just that the upgrade ones have spherical ends which are stronger and allow greater angles to be run in the suspension w/out binding/breaking.

[S15DET]

Adjustable T/C rod's will allow you to adjust your caster, but only to a certain extent before the LCA bushing binds. Otherwise, it's not adjustable.

Tie rod ends are used to set toe. No need to "upgrade."

[heirfaus]

Another tidbit of info: the TC rod bushings are under stress durring acceleration and braking. You can do 2 types of upgrades. The first is the Experiamental Engineering Delrin cup and ball socket upgrade. This will help by giving you a more solid type mount and allow more stability under acceleration and braking. The second option is the Techno Toy Tuning type(also offered by others). As far as I know they use a poly bushing which is stiffer than stock and softer than Delrin, BUT they have added the caster adjustment. Like the previouos replys state castor is great for stability at higher speeds, and also make's it a little tougher to parrallel park. Like previously stated the adjustment is limited by what kind of lower control arm bushing you are using. Stock bushings are somewhat compliant, but will fail if too much caster is applied. Poly busings should not be used with added castor. Spherical bearings are the best option for adding castor.

[sdterrible1]

Kinda off topic, but on the same part. On a stock rod how tight should you tighten it? (where the two bushings in the core support of the car are) Should the bushings be pressed all the way into the recessed metal cup and then tightened all the way down or what? I am having a hard time getting the bushing to fit into the frame cup thing.

[S15DET]

There should be a steel sleeve in the middle of the rubber (or poly) that the nut will bottom out against, giving a positive stop to tighten against.

[icehouse]

I personally will never go with a poly bushing or Dave Carrols setup. A friend broke his TC rod and said it was not a very fun event.. Stock or a T3 type for me. When it comes to suspension no corners should be cut!!

[sdterrible1]

awwwww i see. i think i forgot to install that with the datsport kit. I better check to see if i still have them!
Thank you..

[thisismatt]

The second option is the Techno Toy Tuning type(also offered by others). As far as I know they use a poly bushing which is stiffer than stock and softer than Delrin, BUT they have added the caster adjustment.

The T3 sets don't have any pliable bushing, just a solid mount with a heim joint.

[slodat]

...The second option is the Techno Toy Tuning type(also offered by others). As far as I know they use a poly bushing which is stiffer than stock and softer than Delrin, BUT they have added the caster adjustment.

There is no poly in the T3 T/C rods. The body mounts are machined washers that fit the opening perfectly. That is mated to a huge heim joint. They are beefy. For me, they are the only way to go. My 510 currently has stock stuff on it. I'm with Icehouse on this issue. T3 or stock for me. The only exceptions would be the setup I saw Steve Pepka make for his car or Byron's setup.

My .02

[thisismatt]

Only thing I would have liked on the T3 setup is some kind of clevis at the arm mount. Otherwise I foresee them binding if you have adjustable LCA's since you'd be changing the angle between the LCA and T/C unless you're changing caster (T/C adjustment) at the same time.

[icehouse]

There is no poly in the T3 T/C rods. The body mounts are machined washers that fit the opening perfectly. That is mated to a huge heim joint. They are beefy. For me, they are the only way to go. My 510 currently has stock stuff on it. I'm with Icehouse on this issue. T3 or stock for me. The only exceptions would be the setup I saw Steve Pepka make for his car or Byron's setup.

My .02

Yep I've seen and heard of to many people having there TC rod break with the "cheap" solutions.

Only thing I would have liked on the T3 setup is some kind of clevis at the arm mount. Otherwise I foresee them binding if you have adjustable LCA's since you'd be changing the angle between the LCA and T/C unless you're changing caster (T/C adjustment) at the same time.

Are you talking about the 2 bolts that hold the TC rod to the LCA/ball joint? I've noticed that it helps if you adjust the TC rod with those bolts loose, then after you have the amount of caster you want tighten them. I've tried and adjusted the caster without loosening those bolts and its nearly impossible. When I get my new rack and pinion setup on and have it aligned I'm going to take the strut off and make sure the LCA and TC rod move together freely. After hearing about a T3 TC rod breaking I don't want to risk it. Anything that binds will brake after time, I don't want it to happen to me!!!1

[slodat]

What's the story on the T3 T/C rod breaking Iceman? Any details?

[thisismatt]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, icehouse. When you shorten the T/C to pull the LCA forward you also need to lengthen the LCA to maintain the angle between T/C and LCA. You can think of the LCA, T/C rod, and the imaginary line between LCA pivot and T/C pivot as a triangle with a fixed angle where the T/C mounts to the LCA. Since the imaginary side has no adjustment, and the angle between the T/C and LCA cannot change, when you shorten the T/C you must lengthen the LCA otherwise the triangle can no longer be complete. With stock rubber bushings, and like you said, enough slop in the T/C to LCA bolts, there can be some deflection whether it be that angle between T/C and LCA or some pulling/pushing at the joints, but once you change out everything to solid mounts and joints there isn't the same give. A clevis joint like some other people have made on the leg of the T/C at the LCA end would let this angle change freely during adjustment. I agree it's a good idea to loosen up the T/C to LCA bolts during adjustment and check your range of motion rather than just cranking down on adjusters and calling it good. That's a nasty way to discover binding issues.

[heirfaus]

The second option is the Techno Toy Tuning type(also offered by others). As far as I know they use a poly bushing which is stiffer than stock and softer than Delrin, BUT they have added the caster adjustment.

The T3 sets don't have any pliable bushing, just a solid mount with a heim joint.

...The second option is the Techno Toy Tuning type(also offered by others). As far as I know they use a poly bushing which is stiffer than stock and softer than Delrin, BUT they have added the caster adjustment.

There is no poly in the T3 T/C rods. The body mounts are machined washers that fit the opening perfectly. That is mated to a huge heim joint. They are beefy. For me, they are the only way to go. My 510 currently has stock stuff on it. I'm with Icehouse on this issue. T3 or stock for me. The only exceptions would be the setup I saw Steve Pepka make for his car or Byron's setup.

My .02

My bad I forgot they are solid mount