Troy Ermish Brake Setup

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batman
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Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by batman »

Hi ,

I was just wondering if anyone who has had the wilwood brake setup sold by ermish racing could tell me their thoughts on how good the braking is with this setup, i have taken my 510 of the road to rebuild and am looking at which brakes to use.

Cheers,

Mark
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okayfine
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by okayfine »

I didn't have Troy's setup, but I did have Wilwoods on a past car. I didn't like them. They were inexpensive and easy to buy parts for, to be sure, but they flexed some would "click" when you hit the brakes. You might be able to find a past discussion thread here wherein someone divulged the reason they clicked. It didn't affect performance, but it was annoying on a daily-driven 510.

Troy's work has generally been referenced as stand-up, so I'm sure the quality is there. Lots of brake options, though, depending on your goals and budget.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
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Dave Patten
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by Dave Patten »

Wilwoods or any caliper designed for racing generally work great for braking, but the other stuff allot of guys look for on street car, they don't do very well.

First, they do not have dust boots. Whatever grit, grime, brake dust or fluid that gets behind the brake pad has direct access to the piston/seal surface. It isn't a set-up that will live long without regular removal of pads and cleaning. Definately not a put them on and forget them installation like most street calipers are.

Second, they have no anti-squeal system that keep the brakes from making all kinds of noise when not in use or under light application. No thin tin plate either behind the pad or riveted to it as on a street pad or any springs to help keep the pads from vibrating on the retaining pins.

These features are not a big concern on racecars where pads are replaced on a frequent basis and whoever brakes lightly except in the paddock. And do the Porterfield/Outlaw brakes on my racecar love to squeal when they are hot coming in off the track and driving thru the pits.
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batman
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by batman »

Thanks for the info this will definatly help me in deciding which brake setup to eventually go for ,low maintenaince whould be ideal, i think after reading you comments that a caliper with dust seals is worth choosing and i will look into something with better pad reataining, i have heard that before that some aftermarket calipers make the clicking sound when coming to a stop .



Thanks, Mark
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bertvorgon
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by bertvorgon »

just as a balancing comment on the race brake issue:

First, I totally agree with Dave, that if you drive your car all year, specially in more inclement weather, race calipers are not for you.

That being said, I have driven my race calipers on the street for 27 years now. I have had zero issues with dirt. we have been on some gravel sections, in the odd summer rain storm, and of course washing the car after each drive. I started with the original JFZ Mini GN calipers, which is a standard mount size. They were quite flexy, but did me for many years. Then, I went with the Wilwood equivelent, which did me for road racing, slaloms, and the hillclimbs, and thousands of miles of street use. Not one problem! I now have the BRAKEMAN calipers, which are bridged better, and are forged, so the flex is a non issue now. I am able to get a good selection of pads, which really determines the suitability of ANY caliper used on the street. Race pads on the street are a bad idea..PERIOD! You want a pad the comes on quick, with very good modulation. My pads do not squeal, and the locating pin on the pad/caliper has eliminated the classic "click", as the pads used to bump up and down in the caliper, on the older designs. I have many years on my pads right now, as they work so well, it only takes a quick snub to haul the car down, at least in the context of street type driving and speed. I have race pads for racing...period.

As OKFINE pointed out, the early version did flex a lot, and the castings were not as strong as the new stuff, and the bridging is better, which is really part of the key to any good caliper. That being said, Byron has my old Wilwood's, and I have not heard him complaining at all, and with the pads he is running, is quite impressed by the whole setup...and he still has drums on the back.

Just some thoughts, just be really realistic as to what type of driving, and what conditions you will be in. Be wise and choose a pad that is appropriate for your driving. To hard of a pad can be very dangerous in some panic situations. I have lived that, so I know from whence I speak.
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Byron510
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by Byron510 »

Although I drool over Berts Brakeman calipers, I have to admit his "hand me down" Wilwoods are keeping a smile on my face! Andy at Specialty Engineering had just tried a set of the then new Polymatrix A compounds pads on a project he’d just finished, and he suggested them for my brake set up, so I gave it a shot and I am very happy with them. I don't have the click that has been previously mentioned at all. The only thing I never have is clean wheels! But the pads (and brakes for that matter) are working great for me, wet and cold or dry and hot – and I’ve had them literally smoking hot!
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batman
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by batman »

I have the powerlites on my rally/autocross car and was looking at the ermish setup as i think it may be a little better as far as performance as they have more pad area with the dynalite calipers than the powerlite but i just wanted to hear if anyone had any problems with these caliper's and brake setup before i commit to buying the calipers.

Maybe i should stick with the powerlites as i have not had any problem with them on my race car, the main reason i went with the powerlites for the race car a was they whould fit into my 14'' rims but i have 15'' compomotive ml for the road car and thought of using the ermish setup for these wheels.


I know exactly what you mean as far as brake pads go, i was young and stupid and admit to buying pads that take far to long to heat up before working effectively.


Regards,

Mark
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Byron510
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by Byron510 »

Just for the record, both Keith and I have our brake set ups under 13" wheels.
I have to admit, there is less than 1/8" (3mm) clearance on my set up - not even enough for wheel weights! But they do fit.
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bertvorgon
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by bertvorgon »

That's right......WAAYYYY back...that is what I used for racing, the 13" Panasports, and we needed a caliper that would fit into those wheels.

Funny about how we all have travelled the same road when it comes to ANYTHING with the word race attached to it.
When I started with 510's, anything "RACE" meant you had to be faster, tougher, blah, blah, meant for combat use.

I see it on the site now all the time. When it came to brake pads..."Jeez, you need to have race pads in in your car!"
So, off I went and got the super hard METAL MASTER pads, and put the "green stuff" out back. Well, it did not take me long to realize that I had NO brakes when it was cold and wet, and marginal brakes when sunny, Sure, when everything was starting to get nuclear, it got Great....just before the brake fluid boiled...... :cry:

Best thing I did on both my 510 and my GTS was go back to the softest pad available for street use. Todays compounds have come so far since the 70's, unless your around my age, you have no idea what we had to put up with then, let alone the pure lack of CHOICE!

Those pads that Byron has sure sound great, as they came with a fantastic thumbs up from Specialty, and I would say are the equivelent Performance Friction Z-Rated pad, that I use.
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gbean
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by gbean »

geeez, you guys have me scheming to upgrade the brakes I haven't even put on my car yet.....
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thisismatt
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by thisismatt »

Seems like it would depend on what the brake pistons are made out of and/or coated with as well as for durability without dust boots.
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bertvorgon
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by bertvorgon »

I used to worry about that, but, with at least my driving, which spans the end of April to the end of October, with one or two shloppy drives, I have never had any corrosion or sticking of my calipers. I used to really worry most from the car washing standpoint, where if you do not go for a drive...it just sits there wet. I try to drive my car now after washing, if anything to keep the water from sitting in our very valuable body panels, and rusting away.

When I think of how my Shimano XT calipers on my mountain bike, put up with ride after ride, in more mud and crap that you can imagine, with NO seals, and keep functioning...THAT really amazes me!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
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okayfine
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by okayfine »

gbean wrote:geeez, you guys have me scheming to upgrade the brakes I haven't even put on my car yet.....
There is such a thing as having too much brake.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
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bertvorgon
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Re: Troy Ermish Brake Setup

Post by bertvorgon »

yah, if your not really going road racing, why pack the extra weight, and it just takes longer to put some heat into the pads.

My combo, which has seen some hard road race use at our local track, which is known for how hard it is on brakes, can last me for a good 30 minute session before it goes nuclear. ( given that I do have those cooling ducts to the center of the rotor, and discs out back.

At any other situation, Byron and I have more than enough brakes with the 280ZX rotors, to try to tear you out of the seat.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
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