My Island 710 Goon!

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okayfine
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by okayfine »

Probably a model number. I'd be surprised if it meant anything as far as in/lb ratings. Lots of spring rate calculators on the net that will give you a ballpark figure after a few measurements. Any coil wire size differences between the 4- and 500P?
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datzenmike
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by datzenmike »

400Ps are 0.480", 500Ps are 0.500"

Using a calculator that's 435 lb and 512lb. and are powdercoated so are very slightly smaller.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs
datzenmike
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by datzenmike »

Well I worked out the stock 710 spring rate 104lbs and the Maxima spring 145lbs.

So is this a similar stock rate to the 510???

Would increasing the rate by 4 times sound a bit excessive to anyone? What range of front coil over rates do 510 owners run???
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs
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jason
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by jason »

Stock US 510 was about 85 lbs Mike.
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okayfine
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by okayfine »

Stock 510 front springs are ~89 in/lb. Rears are commensurate, given the motion-ratio multiple.

Increasing the rate up from to 435 in/lb would be a lot much, IMO. There is a range of rates people use at the front of 510s, varying from 150 in/lb to 250+ in/lb, depending on the location and desires and goals for the car. You lot up in Canadia tend to run higher rates in the 250+ that we down south have dubbed the Canada suspension.

You'd also be looking to up the rear rate to match, unless you love big-time understeer. 710s have a solid axle out back?
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
datzenmike
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by datzenmike »

Got it thanks. I'm new to this and realize what works for some is to stiff or soft for others. No wonder I got these so cheap. The guy said they were on his Subaru.

I cut one 710 spring down to the same length of the shorter Maxima spring (150 rate) and was going to install it but decided to try coil overs. Perhaps I can adapt a shortened 710 spring and use it
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs
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Byron510
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by Byron510 »

I once tried a set of 350# springs on my green 68 - not only would it knock your teeth out, it under steered badly if on anything but a billiard ball smooth surface. At stock height, for spirited street driving, I’d say 200# is good. If you are lowering the car, then you may need stiffer spring rates. I am happy with my 275# front rates; however I run R compound tires and only drive on decent roads in the dry. Take out any of these factors with regularity in your driving rituals, and IMO you really should be dropping the spring rates down.

My $0.02 worth...

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jason
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by jason »

Mike, I'm trying a set of 125lb springs in the 4 door this time around, I've had 200lbs in the last 2 'goons and it's a pretty stiff ride, not bad, but, I wouldn't want to try much more than that ...
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datzenmike
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by datzenmike »

Well that makes me more confident. Using a calculator, shortening the stock 710 spring from6.5 down to 4.5 gives a 150 rate. So I'll start there. Thanks
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs
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okayfine
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by okayfine »

If you're looking for 150 in/lb and the 710 runs the same 5.5" OD springs as the 510, you can find a huge variety of rates in the roundy-round circles from $40 per spring. Combine that with the DIY front coilover mod documented here, Ratsun, and DQ, and you'd be rolling. If you cut your stock springs 2 coils, you may run in to travel issues (as in you may stack the coil before you run out of travel (bad) or have eliminated most of your travel with the shorter spring (bad)).

Or, you could use the coilover kit you got and just get new 2.5" springs in the right rate. They're also just about as cheap.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
datzenmike
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by datzenmike »

Well I have slightly shortened the 710 springs to the same length as the Maxima strut springs. This works out to 150 lbs per inch, same as the stock Maxima goon spring and 50% stiffer than the stock 710 spring. I've cut the Maxima spring mounts off and replacing with the 710 mounts. They look like this right now

Image

Before the final assembly I drained the old watery hydraulic fluid and replaced with 20W Belray motorcycle fork oil to stiffen the damping.

While the car is up in the air it's time to think about 5 speed. The 710 F4W63L is almost identical to the 510 but with the speedo on the pass side and is a shorty at 26.3" long. Unlike the 610 the 710 uses a long 3N71B automatic. So if I'm right a shorter auto drive shaft should fit behind the 280z 5 speed I have without having to shorten it.

So today I drained the 4 speed. (the oil, if original has only 50K miles on it, otherwise it was as clean as if it was just replaced btw) and removed the drive shaft. Then the one out of the auto goon and layed them on the sidewalk to measure them. The short 4 speed is 26.3" long and the automatic the same as the 5 speed and should be 31.5" for a difference of 5.2". If the difference in drive shaft length is about 5.2" I'm good...

Image

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...13cm or 5.122" BINGO!

Both drive shafts were heavily sprayed with under coating which doesn't help with the ballance.

Image
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs
datzenmike
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by datzenmike »

710 4 speed is out. Speedo on left so this is exactly like the 510 4 speed. This one has just over 50K miles on it.

Image

Papers in the glove box say the clutch was replaced in '08 so no surprise the PP is spotless

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"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs
datzenmike
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by datzenmike »

Pulled out my '79 zx 5 speed and cleaned it off. Got it well over ten years ago as a spare and actually had to put it in my truck. It's been across Canada 4-5 or more times and I removed it 2 years ago when I swapped in a Z24.

Fastest way to shorten the shift throw is to replace the tailstock for a post '80s one with the higher fulcrum point at the back.

Per '80s
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Post '80s
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The spare is from an '85 720 diesel, not that that's special it's just that the front case is already off of it. Another difference is the change in speedo pinions in '80. They seem to be mounted upside down. Not sure what the reason for this was at the time.

'79 zx. Note mounting bolt is at 12:00 for the speedo pinion.
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Post '80s had the bolt at 6:00. Speedo pinions before and after will NOT swap.
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'79 left and '85 right. Note that the plastic cog is off set differently between the two.
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To be safe I swapped the metal drive gear for the later plastic one from the diesel tranny.
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The post '80 trannys have something called a reverse check sleeve. It goes on the larger hole on the drivers side of the tailstock. (more on this little bugger later)
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Inside the '79 tailstock you can see the striking rod and lever that engages the shift rod ends
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Inside the '85 tailstock. Note the striker rod has a smaller finger pointing down to the right. The hole on the right is for the reverse check sleeve. (remember this for later)
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Before the diesel tailstock goes on, a look at the shift rod ends and the massive 5th/rev fork. Looks to be made of brass. I scratched it with a screwdriver and it's soft.
Image Compare to an '84 720 truck fork.Image

The stock F4W63 4 spd. is very similar to the 510 tranny. Has the same speedo location, same length and gear ratios but the clutch arm does not have the adjusting bolt hole in the end.

710 and FS5W71B clutch arms. They are very similar.
Image

I used the 280zx arm with the release bearing collar that was on the car.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs
datzenmike
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by datzenmike »

Today, after all the measuring and comparing and all the thought that has gon into my 5 speed swap, I cannot put it off any longer. The weather is great today and I took the cover off the goon got my tools out of the back and rolled the zx tranny underneath it. With the usual BS I jacked it into place an slid it in to find that the 4 speed bolts are too short for the 5 speed. :lol:

It's in and bolted to the motor. Past first and headed for second. Loosely placed the cross member in under the tailstock (180 to the 4 speed) and slid the rubber mount onto it. Now, I've bolted in lots of trannys, ones that only days before were in there and fit, but none of them lined up so perfect without prying on them. All the bolts pushed in and could be hand tightened.

5speed on 710 cross member and rear mount. The bump for exhaust pipe clearance is now on wrong side so the pipe is now a bit snug. Tranny appears to be sitting slightly high. Perhaps I can remove the mount and just sandwich a sheet of rubber between the tranny and the cross member. If that doesn't lower it enough I'll modify it and fix the pipe clearance at the same time.

Shifter does seem high but at the same time it fits the hole. The cover and console only need to be moved back less than 2"
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Roughly in place. Ignore cheesy stereo and torn rubber boot.
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The shifter has a goose neck shape at bottom and can be fitted 180 around to move the shifter ball further from the driver if you want. (I tried it further forward and could easily shift 1-2 and still hold the wheel but will go with the closer placement for now)

First
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Second
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Very close, very short shift. Not at all like the '79 tailstock when in the truck. I like it!
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs
datzenmike
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Re: My Island 710 Goon!

Post by datzenmike »

Forgot about the reverse check sleeve. It prevents shifting from 5th directly into reverse. When I was sitting in the goon and 'rowing through the gears' to check shifter feel and location, I tried to put it into reverse and it was 'jammed'. As long as the shifter moves from the left to the right through the neutral gate it will go into reverse. If you come straight down from 5th it is blocked. Interesting.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs
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