BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

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Chickenman
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby Chickenman » 01 Mar 2014 17:50

A few other things to discuss.

1: Dual Mass Flywheel. I would be very, very cautious about replacing this with a Single Mass ( Lightweight Flywheel ). Most modern engines no longer use front mounted Crankshaft Dampners, but rather a DMF to control crankshaft harmonics. Changing to a lighter SMF significantly increases NVH and can change a nice comfortable and quite cruising GT car into something that you will quickly grow tired of with the extra vibrations, droning and and possible increased shift effort.

Contrary the report in the previous magazine. DMF make shifting EASIER on the synchros by absorbing the torque spikes when shifting. And V6 engines need crankshaft dampening much more than an Inlne 4... which has balanced Primary harmonics. I would be very, very cautious about replacing the Factory DMF with a SMF. Do some research on DMF by LUK and Sachs, and it quickly becomes obvious what the advantages are.

I think that most of the Lazy throttle feeling is due to not completing the TBA and possibly also the ECU Throttle Mapping.

Personal experience. I switched my Audi A4 Quattro 1.8Turbo from the factory DMF ( approx 25 lbs ) for a 9.5 lb Aluminium flywheel. Yes the engine revs quicker and double clutches quicker. Great for Autocross. But the day to day PITA issues of more noise from transmission ( gear clatter when warm at idle), MUCH more engine vibration and noise ( particularly on freeway ), reduced synchro life and shift quality, reduced clutch life due to having to slip the clutch more from starts and especially on hills makes this one modification I would never again do to a Luxury or Sports car. Unfortunately I tossed the old DMF. I'm kicking myself over that. If I keep the Audi I will be installing a new DMF in the Spring. The lightweight aluminum SMF is such a pain for Daily Driving...

People also forget that the overall mass of a DMF can actually be less than that of a older design Front Dampener and Single Mass Flywheel because a DMF does not usually require a front dampener, or if it does, the front dampener can have much less mass.

DMF were developed for Passenger cars back in the mid-1980's. Most European and Japanese manufacturers now incorporate this design into every vehicle they produce. Here are a couple of Engineering articles showing the advantages of DMF's over standard designs. Interesting is the increase in Fuel Economy by using DMF's:

http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/media/_shared_media/08_media_library/01_publications/schaeffler_2/symposia_1/downloads_11/1_dual_mass_flywheel_1.pdf

http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/media/_shared_media/08_media_library/01_publications/schaeffler_2/symposia_1/downloads_11/4_DMFW_1.pdf

More links:

http://www.amsautomotive.com/dual-mass-flywheels

http://www.sachsperformance.com/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=459

2: Transmission fluid. GM/AC DELCO has developed a semi-synthetic " Friction Modified " fluid for modern transmissions that is like MAGIC. Every forum you go to, from Honda, Audi, Toyota, VW, Suburu, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan etc raves about this stuff. I was skeptical at first, but I was having an issue with a slightly crunchy 2nd gear Synchro on my Audi. I had previously tried Amsoil GL4 manual transmission fluid and Redline MT-90 GL 4 fluid. The Amsoil was just too darned slippery and made engagement worse. The Redline wasn't too bad. But I'd still get a crunch into 2nd when the box was cold ( 236,00KM on original 5 speed ).

Tried out the GM Friction Modified fluid and the transmission shifted like new. Literally like a hot knife through butter. I could not believe the difference that this fluid made in shift quality.

I recently serviced the transmission ( Torsen wearing out ) and for some reason decided to try the Redline MT90 again. Shift quality immediately degraded, and I have the 2nd gear crunch back again. The GM/AC DELCO fluid is going back in ASAP!!

BTW, I talked to the Parts Manager at Dueck Vancouver ( on Terminal ) . He can't keep the stuff in stock!! Local dealers from Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, VW/Audi, Subaru all order this fluid for their " difficult" shifting transmissions and install it for warranty service on the " Hush Hush " While not an Official Technical Service Bulletin.. the use of this fluid is well documented all over North America by Dealerships of European and Japanese manufacturers.

BTW. The GM Fluid and AC DELCO are the exact same part. Just different labels. Lordco seems to have one of the best prices. $12.75 CDN per liter wholesale. AC DELCO CDN part number : 10953509.

For USA members the AC DELCO USA part number is: 88900399. GM USA part number is: 12377916

Edit: All of these part numbers are the same fluid. For some reason GM/AC Delco keeps changing the packaging and part numbers. I've just found out this morning that some Canadian GM dealers have this fluid under both the old numbers and the newer ones.
Last edited by Chickenman on 02 Mar 2014 11:48, edited 5 times in total.

Chickenman
Posts: 477
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 15:10
Location: Coquitlam

Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby Chickenman » 01 Mar 2014 18:06

Clutch slow to engage? Most modern luxury vehicles now incorporate a Clutch Delay Valve. Also called a Dumb A** valve for people who can't shift. It is a simple restrictor or small valve in the line that slows the engagement of the clutch. A lot of German cars such a BMW/Mercedes/Audi/VW etc use these.... and so possibly does Nissan.

Edit: G35/G37 definitely use one as well. Part number 30859-CF00B . This appears tyo be the lastest supercession.

Illustration 30364A in link below. Called a Clutch Bracket in site description, but also referred to as Orifice valve by Nissan Parts List:

http://www.infinitipartszone.com/Page_Product/PartDetail.aspx?ModelName=G35&ModelYear=2006&SubModel=Coupe&ModelSeries=V35&FileType=003&SelectConditions=%281%3dC%3b2%3dVQ35DE%3b3%3d2WD%3b4%3dSPORT%3b5%3dMT.F6%3b%29&ShowConditions=%281%3dC%3b3%3d2WD%3b4%3dSPORT%3b5%3dMT.F6%3b%29&seeDesc=False&goBack=True&SectionNo=&ComponentsNo=308

Edit: Looks like Orifice Part number 30650-CD000 is the original part:

http://www.partsbase.org/infiniti/g35-v35-ca-c-vq35de-2wd-hi-sport-mt-f6-power-train-clutch-piping-p-1/#p-infiniti-30859cf00b

Hmmmm... I'm wondering if the latest part ( 30859-CF00B ) is a service part that replaces the CDV with a bracket and union?. Price of new part is about half that of original. Keith Give Bruce Yeo a call at Morrey Infinity Coquitlam. Morrey Infinity also has one of the original Nissan Regional parts guys working there. Super sharp guy and REALLY knows his stuff!!



Valve or restriction can be removed, bypassed with a union or simply drilled out. Clutch engagement will be much more crisp and direct without that " Mushy " feel.

.
Last edited by Chickenman on 02 Mar 2014 10:36, edited 1 time in total.

Chickenman
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Joined: 06 Sep 2010 15:10
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby Chickenman » 02 Mar 2014 00:24

Once a Nissan Partsman...always a Nissan Partsman. Can't believe I remember all this S**T :D

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bertvorgon
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby bertvorgon » 02 Mar 2014 08:55

My brain is reeling....THANKS RICHARD!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Chickenman
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Joined: 06 Sep 2010 15:10
Location: Coquitlam

Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby Chickenman » 02 Mar 2014 11:08

Hmmm..seems my talents as a Tour Bus Driver are being wasted. Looks like I should go back to being a Partsman.

Just talked to Don West and he told me his story of trying to find the Magic GM transmission fluid.

I supplied Don with the latest part number for the AC Delco fluid. Don goes to his local GM dealership and talks to the Parts " Expert"

Don: " Hi.. I'd like to to buy 4 liters of your GM Semi-Synthetic Friction Modified manual transmission fluid "

Parts Expert: " Doh... WTF are you talking about? " I don't speak Swahili...

Don: " Here's the part number. AC Delco 10953509 . It comes in a white bottle."

PE: " Nope. That's not a good number ( It is BTW ). What's year and model is your car? "

Don: " It's a 2004 Subaru WRX "

PE: " Why do you want GM fluid for your Subaru? "

Don: Image

PE: I'll go ask my Transmission Tech.

TT: ( Who fortunately has an IQ higher than a Peanut ) . Oh yeah. I know the stuff you want. My old Honda was hard shifting and their Techs told me to use this GM Fluid. I think I have a half bottle left out back. Just a minute...

Tech comes back with a Black AC Delco bottle with the old 88900399 part number. Here ya go. This is the stuff.

Don: " Hmmm. that's a different Part number and bottle than what I was given. Is it the same stuff? "

PE: " The same stuff as what? "

Don: The 10953509 Fluid

PE: " Damned if I know "

Don: Ummmm... Ok thanks. I think I'll try elsewhere. Image

Don now goes to the local Lordco and talks to the minimum wage 18 year old Parts Assistant behind the counter. Don's not expecting much help. :?

Don: ( Figuring he'll just keep the info to a minimum ). Hi... I want 4 liters of AC Delco Part number 10953509.

18 year old pimply faced Parts Dude: " Oh you want the GM Semi Synthetic Friction Modified transmission fluid. Yeah..that stuffs good. Honda told me to use it in my new Civic to solve a shifting problem. Is that for your Subaru parked out front? Should work awesome. I've got lots in stock and I sell a ton of it. "

Don: Silence...followed by a large thump when Don faints in shock and hits the floor... :lol:

Parts Dude: Damn...there goes another one. I guess I shouldn't speak in Swahili....

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bertvorgon
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby bertvorgon » 02 Mar 2014 16:35

So Richard,

Your saying we can get the fluid at Lordco?! AND..is it ok to use in my tranny? Way back when I got the car, and looked into the oil.....the G35 site was awash with guys talking about different oils for the tranny, good for syncos, bad for syncros, special this and that. I went away from it as typical with the Internet, most of the guys on that site spout the worst information as possible, then others take it as gospel. Most young guys theses days know nothing of cars and basic mechanical's...what happened to basic automotive shop in High School?

I will look tomorrow on my fire wall and see where that "clutch bracket" is, and if it is easy to get to.

You nailed it on the head with the whole clutch slowness. These new cars are just shits for us who have grown up with race cars. When I blip the throttle to downshift, it cannot keep up with me. As a matter of fact there are a LOT of things that this car cannot keep up with.

EDIT : I did track down on the 350z site that the 350 came with 1 1/6" master, and mine is the 1". Seems the Nissan marketing guys figured that women, DOT-COM guys with brief cases, would want a mushy brake pedal feel, not a FIRM pedal.

I never entertained changing the fylwheel, as I get the anti vibration things on our modern cars. If I can get the clutch to keep up with me, I will be happy with that.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Chickenman
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby Chickenman » 02 Mar 2014 19:23

Problem with the Internet is that you have to sort the Wheat from the Chaff. I usually research lubrication info from " Bob Is The Oil Guy ". Excellent site and I'm sure you know about it. That's where I first found out about the GM Friction Modified fluid.

Yes the GM Friction modified fluid is safe for your G35. It is a semi- synthetic GL-4 fluid which is required manual transmissions.. Do NOT EVER use a GL-5 fluid in a manual transmission. That will destroy the synchros.

BTW, after talking with Don West later this afternoon, the GM dealer ( although clueless ) gave him a heck of a price on the AC Delco fluid. $9.50 a liter I believe. Even cheaper than Lordco. So you may want to check that out.

Don was just spooked and didn't trust the guy. Any of the 3 part numbers I listed are correct. In fact we peeled the label off of the Lordco bought AC Delco semi synthetic friction modified fluid # 10953509 ( which was clearly labelled as the correct stuff ) and underneath was the older AC Delco label, with part # 88900399. So exact same stuff.

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bertvorgon
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby bertvorgon » 08 Mar 2014 11:34

I finished a small project yesterday, putting a passenger side female seat belt buckle, onto the driver's side.
Infinity, in their infinite wisdom, made the driver's side buckle very long, due to the fact that the seat can go up and down. For me though, and I have a short upper body, it meant that the seat belt did NOT go over my right side hip, but stayed quite high. To me this represented a very dangerous situation if you had a slight lateral impact, the belt would tighten over your stomach. I cannot imagine how bad it would be if you were a tall person, as the belt would not even be remotely close to your hips.
After a quick look at the G35 site, sure enough I'm not the only one to have the problem. I ordered a passenger side buckle from our friend at Nissan. The G35 site did scare the hell out of me, due to guys saying the airbags could deploy if you unplug the wiring harnesses under the seat, of which there are many. Also, it would trigger a code so the check light would come on. As a matter of fact, I could not believe how much stuff is under that seat. After careful scrutiny, I could see that I could just unbolt the seat and roll it out the driver's door a hair, to get at the seat belt bolt, and not undo any harness's, other than the seat belt warning light.

The seat must weigh a hundred pounds, loaded with two electric motors for all the adjustments, plus wiring plus bracketry. I wrestled it out of the way, vacuumed all the crud that was down the inaccessible side of the seat, bolted the seat back in...DONE!

Now it feels so much better, the belt is right across my hips bones, where it should be. I really wonder how Nissan got away with that much play in the belt, as I sure would never pass that.

Next, onto the brake master and clutch line.
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"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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bertvorgon
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby bertvorgon » 24 May 2014 11:49

Morning World,

Time for my latest update, which you may find interesting of you drive a modern, drive-by-wire car.

read on......

Let me say that we should really cherish our old cars! A simplicity that is being lost with our new generations of cars, where electronics and engineers are letting the cars control what we do.

I have now finished my latest round of trying to get some precision back into the G35. It really points out what the engineers THINK the average driver should have, which, as I have said before, in the case of the G35, is that the so called performance car is really dumbed down for the 99%. I at least feel vindicated myself, that my whining did have some substance to it, now that I have addressed the issues. In my research I found that most of the new cars have the same thing as my G35, so I am not alone.

Based on Richard’s ( CHICKENMAN) recommendation on the AC/Delco transmission fluid being good for “notchy” shifting trans, I thought I would try it. I have 110,000 Km on the car, so what could I lose on a trany fluid change anyhow? Well, that oil worked just amazing, getting rid of the slight hesitation and the odd snag on the syncros.

The clutch restriction.....after motoring through where the factory SAID the restriction was...it was NOT. Fortunately, in my research, I found that NISMO made a replacement clutch line, so I had purchased that also. As it turned out, that was my luck out for where the restriction actually was. The frigg’in stock line has an insanely small orifice in it, so that was where the dampening came from. What a dumb thing! You cannot believe the slight delay in the clutch release, so when you would be just giving the engine some throttle, and letting the clutch out, as per normal, yet the clutch would lag behind the throttle input, and almost stall the car, as the load application was at a different point that our brain is used to feeling in normal clutch release timing. And stall the car I did, many times, felt like a rookie at times. So, coupled with the new transmission fluid, the shifting is almost like our older cars.

This takes me to the BIG modification...the throttle lag/hang issue. If you have not driven a modern car with drive-by-wire, you will not understand the issue. The throttle truly does lag when you get on it, and, when you shift, and dip the clutch, the revs stay UP, a lot, so it becomes very hard to rev match during shifting. And, now that I have done the modification, I really see how MUCH the whole throttle thing is delayed. Again, Richard had posted a link to a product called a “SPRINT BOOSTER”. I looked at it on line, and thought, “OH, YAH, another piece of gadgetry!” But, I did some research and found very positive reviews, even from the G35 site. It had won numerous awards, one of which was a SEMA award, no small event there. So, there was a CDN distributor, with free shipping. 314.00 CDN and four days later, I had the box in my hand. Inside was a small, four inch long, plug in harness, and a small control switch. What you do is un-plug the wiring harness that goes into the gas pedal, then install this between the pedal and the harness, took me 7 minutes. The small control module plugs into the side of the harness plug at the pedal, having a 3 foot cord with the setting switch at the end of it.. It has three settings, OFF, SPORT, and RACE. I set it on RACE and off I went. Does this sucker ever work!!!! I could not believe it. Best 314.00 I have spent in a long time. I would say it has cured 90+% of any throttle issues, and they are only at low revs. Also, does the engine ever respond faster...PERIOD! Now when I row it through the gears, and, especially with down shifting and double clutching, the normal linearity that we would expect, is there. I will leave it on the “race” setting, which is just normal as far as I’m concerned. Here is a link to the site, in case anyone with a modern car cares to check it out.

http://www.sprintbooster.ca/

The car is totally transformed with the clutch, fluid and throttle issue virtually fixed. It’s drivability change is so dramatic, I still have a smile on my face.
The brake master, I wish that had been a full success, but not quite. The master was bypassing, so that has been eliminated. I ended up having to just put a stock one in, as the larger master for the BREMBO G35/350Z cars, was clocked wrong for the mounting to the power booster, and, the brake lines came in on the opposite side. The pedal still has some slop, which, I am still going to look at. We are possibly going to make a longer clevis pin, to bring the pedal height up a tad, and, we are going to look at the actual adjustment in the power booster itself. If we can eliminate about 1/2 – 3/4” of useless travel, I think I can say it is good. The main issue now is that for heel-toeing, the brake pedal just goes below my gas pedal. I like it to be at least even or just a hair higher than the gas pedal. I’m almost there.

As a side note, a long time friend of mine ( racer, motorcyclist ) just bought a 2013 Hyundai Genesis 2L turbo. He has now lived with it for a month or so, and is now tearing his hair out over exactly my issues, clutch and throttle hang issues. His sounds even worse than the G35.

Then there is Richard, cannot launch his Audi at the slaloms properly, due to clutch line delay.....

Thank you Engineers of the World....for dumbing down our cars for us.
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NISMO CLUTCH REPLACEMENT LINE, THIS IS WHERE THE RESTRICTION WAS IN THE STOCK LINE.
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I removed the plastic zip tie and put copper wire on
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"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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bertvorgon
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby bertvorgon » 24 May 2014 11:53

This is the SPRINT BOOSTER,

Cannot say enough as to how well this works on my car!
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"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

HudsonMC
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby HudsonMC » 27 May 2014 14:16

My understanding of the sprint booster system is that it simply remaps throttle input, giving the illusion of better throttle response. I looked into it when I still had my G35, as I experiencing the exact frustrations you were. It kind of makes sense, considering its location in the system. It basically just magnifies your throttle input.

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bertvorgon
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby bertvorgon » 27 May 2014 19:00

Yes, it more than gives the illusion, having lived with it for 2 weeks now, the throttle response is virtually lineal with input. So, yes, it does magnify the input, but, in a controlled way, so there is NO over inputting. there is only one spot, just off idle, in second gear, where I could say it is a bit quicker than actual input.
I adjusted the last slop out of the clutch pedal this afternoon, so now with the fixed throttle, the whole up and down shifting is is just fine now.

I still have the bloody brake issue, I'm going to make a longer clevis pin, and get rid of the slop to preload the master, till just before it would actually move the piston. If I can just get the pedal to be above the gas pedal, that would be awesome, and I will just have to live with the freak'in spongyness.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

HudsonMC
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby HudsonMC » 29 May 2014 09:03

Ah, I see. I was never frustrated with the linearity of the output/input, just the input lag.

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bertvorgon
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby bertvorgon » 31 May 2014 09:29

Yesterday, one of our 510 community brethren here, Chris C., who is a Nissan tech ( certified to work on the GTR ) came and grabbed my car from me, and took it to the dealership. On his own time he ran a diagnostics check on the ABS, then re-bled my brakes. No issues were found, other than we are both in agreement that the slop needs to be removed from the pedal to booster to master. It is kinda funny that Nissan did not put in a long enough adjustment rod, but, as we look at what has been softened up for most drivers, it may have been done for a reason.

THANK CHRIS!!!

What he did comment on was the throttle responsiveness, that ALL G35's should have this Sprint Booster!
The other day, when I got in the car, I also realized I was NOT thinking about shifting, which may sound crazy, but with the clutch delay eliminated, the release point is as it should be...COOL!

My clevis pin will be in on Monday so I will work on that right away. I am feeling that with the system pre-loaded to the master, this should get rid of the double pump issue...I hope.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Chickenman
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Re: BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

Postby Chickenman » 01 Jul 2014 17:35

The GM fluid works in older style trannies as well. My 76 " 280z " came with a 83 ZX Turbo 5- speed that had suppossedly been rebuilt. Tranny was prtty clunky to shift and always snatched 2nd gear when cold. Certainly didn't feel " rebuilt ".

Finally got around to changing the fluid. Glad I did it myself instead of taking it to one of those " Minute-Lube " places and have them drain and refill the tranny.

Upon draining the fluid, the consistency and color looked wrong. Nice and clean oil..but too thick and kind of creamy colored. Then the smell hit me. S**T !! Someone had put in 75w-90 GL5 Diff lube instead of GL4. No wonder it shifted hard!! :roll:

Put in 2 liters of the GM Fiction Modified fluid and within a few blocks car was starting to shift better. A week later and tranny is shifting like butter. It literally falls into gear. Really a phenomenal difference.

If you've got a manual transmission ( of just about any make ) that is a bit notchy shifting, give the GM Friction Modified Manual Transmission fluid a try. It really works better than anything I have ever found. And that includes Redline MT90, MT80 and MTL.


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