LZ 23 .... nope KAZ23S

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Byron510
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Re: LZ 23 (E?) .... nope LZ23

Postby Byron510 » 17 Aug 2013 23:01

When I drill the holes for matching the L heads to the Z22E or S block, I drilled 2 5/16" holes at about 5 and 7 o'clock when viewed in your photos here. Just make sure you lay a good center punch down first. Drill your pilot hole (1/8" is fine), or better yet get yourself a proper center drill, they are cheap and are very accurate - you'll start to use it every time you drill a hole.

I took the time once to slot out the holes, but found on subsequent motors that it didn't seem necessary. No scuffing was noted on teardowns, so I don't feel there were any hot spots.

Note, the gasket you use and handle - don't use it on the final motor assembly. I made this mistake once. I thought I was being ultra clean but the head gasket failed 6 months later. It's just not worth your time in the future.

Byron
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datzenmike
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Re: LZ 23 (E?) .... nope LZ23

Postby datzenmike » 17 Aug 2013 23:15

Wear gloves, maybe? Both head and block are fresh milled. I also have the old gasket and also a new Z24 gasket. I'll figure something. Yes 5/16" sounds better.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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Re: LZ 23 (E?) .... nope LZ23

Postby datzenmike » 22 Aug 2013 20:20

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Balanced my pistons. Were within 1.4 grams of each other. Now 1/10 gram. Scale was so sensitive that air movement from just walking up to it sent it off.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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Re: LZ 23 (E?) .... nope LZ23

Postby datzenmike » 10 Sep 2013 20:35

Well the head is freshly back fro the shop.
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Don't plan on using an electric fuel pump. An L or Z pump will go nicely for the R-1 carbs.
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Latest side project is my own HG
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L head on Z block is easy, they are basically the same so all you do is compare gaskets and add a hole or two. This because the L and Z block get's it's cooling water pushed in from the front right hand side. The KA enters from the front left. L and Z blocks tend to have more holes on the exhaust side so water has to go around the cylinders or all the way to the back and around #4 then forward on the left side up into the head and out the left front. The KA enters and leaves on the left and the HG tends to have most of the holes around #4.

BTW the Z22 and the KA block cylinders are Siamesed so water does not flow between them. What I figure is water will flow into the block right front and around the front by the chain and mostly to the back around #4, this gets it to the left side where it travels up into the head, cooling the exhaust side, up over and between combustion chambers to the right and forward and out the front right to the rad. More or less like the arrows on the HG.
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Just for fun I mated the head and block... now there's something you don't see every day.
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"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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Re: LZ 23 (E?) .... nope LZ23

Postby datzenmike » 19 Sep 2013 17:10

I've ordered main and rod bearings. With the crank roughly in place I can loosely place the head on and start working out the timing chain length. Also check the head bolt lengths. One of the KA heads I unbolted and I saved the bolts but I don't see them. The Z24 bots will work but I'll keep looking.

As the KA 24E had two oil drain back holes at the rear of the head and one is in the place of all L and Z heads, but the right side is directly over a coolant hold in the Z22 block and this will not do. I figure the copper head gasket will seal them both from each other but just in case I'm closing it off.

I made an 1/8" aluminum plug and hammered it tightly into the head about 1/2".
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Next I ground a groove into and around the bore about 1/4" down. This will help anchor the JB weld so it can't move up or down. Mixed, this stuff actually flows and fills into any cavity. Nice...
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Pretty close to flat but I'll check with a straight edge. Now the gasket is well supported on the head side.
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Well after a week of putting this off I finally had to sit down and get serious. The KA block IS Siamesed or joined between cylinders. The Z22 is only joined between one and two and three and four. It's open between two and three. I though they were all joined and must have only checked between one and two and assumed.... So anyway the head gasket will be treated as a Z22 with the majority of coolant entering up into the head on the exhaust side, flowing over and around the combustion chambers and out the front intake side. Fuckitall I'm over thinking this.

Oil on the KA flows up beside one of the head bolts to the cam which is different than the L Z series. The head has a notch in it to direct oil to the bolt hole but I cut the gasket as well.

The second oil drain back hole is left out and with yesterday's JB weld plug should not offer any problems.

I think I have to drill one or maybe two small holes in the deck for coolant passage and also file away any burrs from drilling the soft copper.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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Re: LZ 23 .... nope KAZ23S

Postby datzenmike » 13 Oct 2013 16:44

Haven't up dated in a while as nothing much done, was raining, working or cutting grass... (or any excuse you want to fill in) But recently the bearing showed up. A bonus was I got all the rod bearings for the price of one set as the package held all four boxes and had a single price on it. So who's to argue and get someone in trouble?



The rings are now on order so I thought I would see if the Z22 crank is where I left it 8 years ago. It was, so I installed a couple of main bearings just to hold it in place and slipped a KA piston on a rod, fitted bearings and brought up to TDC and............. looks good! With theory you're never sure until it's together.

Z22 block decked 1mm or 0.040". Machinist said 'you're sure?' I said 'I think so'....
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I get almost 0.025" between KA piston top and the deck. Theory says .55mm or 0.0217"... damn that pretty close.
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Well the pistons won't hit the head even with a 0.020" copper gasket.

Yet to figure out and do...
Get, instal rings/pins/rods/bearings and generally finish the bottom end.
Final assembly of the cam, valves and seals to complete the head.
Come up with a timing chain that will marry KA head to decked Z22 block.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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Byron510
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Re: LZ 23 .... nope KAZ23S

Postby Byron510 » 29 Oct 2013 20:26

So Mike, operating at the other end of the spectrum - you've seen this right?

http://www.lescollinsracing.com/engine/ ... -series-4v

Click on the video link, and prepare to drool!

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

datzenmike
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Re: LZ 23 .... nope KAZ23S

Postby datzenmike » 25 Apr 2015 16:11

Well some small progress in the right direction today.



The block was hot tanked and bored but without removing the plugs at the end of the oil gallery I can't really clean the crud out, specially the vertical holes down to the main bearing saddles. A friend at work is a hunter and I asked if there were cheap gun cleaning kits. Something that would work on a 410 and a .22 should do what I want. He was enthusiastic but I warned this might crud them up. He's good with that because he now has an excuse to buy a revolver that comes with a rifle cleaning kit. Figures.



So the rear gallery plug I drilled two smaller holes side by side that overlap and because these plugs are so soft I jammed a screwdriver in and dislodged it and out it came.

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The front one I tried just a single larger hole. I slit the plug down the side with a screwdriver and out it came...

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I will get the rifle cleaning kit and clean the gallery another day but for now....

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The oil gallery is 0.515" which is ideal for a 5/8" tap. I chose 5/8 X 11 NC and 3/4" long. I rolled up a strip of cloth and pushed it a couple of inches in to keep the chips out. These will be fished out later when cleaning properly. I found that once started, about 1/4 turns with frequent backing off several turns seemed to work best. Every full turn I removed the tap and blew out the chips. If I was to do this again, I would go with shorter 5/8" or even 1/2" long threaded plugs and here's why...



The oil gallery is 0.515" wide but narrows down slightly about 3/4" in. This is so the soft metal plug will jam in place and a couple of hits from behind will swell it and seal the hole just like a core plug in the block. I noticed the closer I got to getting the plug flush, the tighter the tap was to turn. I imagine the hole was becoming too small for the tap. A shorter threaded plug would solve that. When I have cleaned out the gallery and do seal it up permanently, I will be using Teflon tape or likely some sort of sealer to assure no leaking.



I assume a .410 barrel brush will clean this gallery and maybe a .22 for the main bearing holes?



Took about an hour to do and $11 for a cheap tap.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

iceman510
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Re: LZ 23 .... nope KAZ23S

Postby iceman510 » 15 Apr 2016 06:39

Update on this project?

datzenmike
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Re: LZ 23 .... nope KAZ23S

Postby datzenmike » 15 Apr 2016 20:33

Damn a whole year! I took the rods and caps in a while back but could not make repeatable weight measurements on our digital scale. It's good to 1/10 or maybe 1/100 of a gram. Every time I took the rod off and put it back on I got a slightly different number. Several grams. It was frustrating so I left off. Methodology may have been wrong. Hell the scale was so sensitive I had to turn the vent fan off because the moving air currents were disturbing the readings.

I may look into this again with fresh eyes later.

Working on putting an L16 exhaust manifold on my 710 and getting rid of the co-joined intake/exhaust that's on it. Want a water cooled '78/'79 intake and drill the U67 head. But that's another story.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs


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