LZ 23 .... nope KAZ23S

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hang_510
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Post by hang_510 » 06 Sep 2006 09:39

i never found the specifics re: the Z24 crank, its why i went w/ the Z22 crank, dished 87.5mm forged pistons to get me ~9.7:1. ported & bigger valves in a U67 head.
the Z24 seemed like alot more work than it was worth and there are issues associated w/removing that much material. there are some more details on ozdat.com from some of the rally guys who have done/tried it.
i have also come across 3 others who have already done something very similiar to what im doing and they have liked it. (L20block & rods, Z22crank) IIRC the Z22 and L20b rods are similiar lengths.

i should be picking up the block from the machinist next weekend.
byron wrote:I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie.
okayfine wrote:Sense doesn't always have everything to do with it, and I speak from experience.

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Post by datzenmike » 11 Sep 2006 17:33

Thanks, quite the read. Well it's down to what you have, but with Z 24 pistons (LZ 23), or rebuild a Z 24 with L series head on it. Need bottom end torque the most, will get it with Z 24 stroke. I am looking at L 20 B / Z 22 / Z24 rods and other than the Z 24 rods are 2 cm longer they are the same thickness and dimentions.
Went and got the Z 24 block I got the pistons out of this past weekend. I now have a complete Z 24, a Z 22, and 2 L 20 B 's to work with. Total outlay around $50 and a 6 pack.
What would a Z 24 with open chamber head have for Compression Ratio?
well did the math and got 9.8 A bit higer than I'd like. Maybe a thicker gasket? Double the gasket gives 8.84, not too bad for a start!
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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Post by datzenmike » 21 Oct 2006 16:17

Well, i'm back from 3 week holiday in Ontario. My Z 24 block is now stripped and cleaned and drying on top of the wood stove. It appears that the Z 24 is siameesed between cylinders and there is a small hole drilled at an angle down from the drivers side toward the passenger side, to allow water to flow between the cylinders at it's hottest point. Also it appears that there are fewer holes in the passenger side gasket so that water will be pushed to the driver's side of the block through these holes.
I thought the Z series had a smaller diameter oil filter but it appears to be like an L 20 B.
The crank/rods/pistons have been lubed and plastic wrapped to save them untill I need them.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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hang_510
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Post by hang_510 » 05 Jan 2007 15:36

any progress mike?
im gonna look at a 2 dr that is NOT currently running, but has a proven LZ in it. Z24 bottom/U67 head, dual44 webers. the guy selling it has raved about it. has race details from willow springs, in the 90's.

there is a bump in the hood from the timing cover, aside from that it looks to be a sweet deal. (this is besides what i have already said)

:idea: any specifics about what to look for (aside from tearing it apart)
byron wrote:I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie.
okayfine wrote:Sense doesn't always have everything to do with it, and I speak from experience.

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Post by datzenmike » 05 Jan 2007 18:04

No progress on motor, but I have been collecting 'stuff'. I have an 81 200sx EFI, all wiring, ECU, everything including the Z series head from my parts car. I have it all stored away. Lately, I found an '80 200sx and I'm in the process of grabbing all of the EFI off of it too(weather willing).

My short range plan is to install all the EFI stuff on my L20B, and will probably switch the Z20E head on to make it easier. I KNOW! I KNOW, that pretty much makes it into a Z20E but it is easier and I don't have to make an EFI manifold for my L right away. When this is done the EFI fuel pump will be in, all the plumbing on, and exhaust working.

Have you noticed how freakin' much room there is on the exhaust side, without the L intake in the way??? Dare I say thoughts of TURBO run through my head?

Next, re-build the Z24 block with the lower 4X4 pan and long deep pick up tube (got tons 'o room on truck) and slip under the EFI system and head. I may have to use the Z20E head as I hear the Z24 head ports are different shape, but the compression with the smaller head..?? maybe port match??

By now I should have a Z24E if there is such a thing, the trucks had Z24i (throttle body injection) the 200sx's went from Z22E's to CA18ET, CA20, and CA20E's then to KA motors. Didn't use the Z24, it was a truck motor I guess, so that should say something about it's torque potential. Even the Stanza's didn't use them.

Now I have to choose my next move. Will I make an EFI for an L head and mount on the Z24, or look at a turbo option? Too early to choose, I'm going to have some fun making a Z24E run.


When you tear it down pay extra attention to the timing chain and drive assembly. Don't forget that it is 'home-made' at best. Not that there's anything wrong with that, It's just not factory, and it is someone else's work, so check it. Replace the guides and tensioner assy. Truck KA motors are supposed to have the same hi out-put oil pumps as the 280zx turbo automatic, I'd get one if it doesn't have one. , about $60 CDN. I don't know what's been done to the head, but seeing as it's now on top of an engine that flows 400cc's or 1/5 more air, it should get some cam and port work. Header to get rid of it of coarse.
Empirical knowledge of other long stroke motors, suggests that it would be a lower rpm torque maker with high rpm vibration caused by a crankshaft that isn't fully counter weighted. This wasn't a problem with the stock head as I've heard that the valve springs were so weak that it was a built in rev limiter. Not so with the L head. Right now it's a mind exercise, YOU tell us how high it will go! I think Byron has an LZ22 that he has a dyno chart for... 130 RWHP , putting out as much hp at 6,500 as an L20B at it's peak!!! And yours is 9% larger! Lots of potential.

Supper's ready!
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Post by datzenmike » 20 Jan 2007 20:52

hang_510 wrote:any progress mike?
im gonna look at a 2 dr that is NOT currently running, but has a proven LZ in it. Z24 bottom/U67 head, dual44 webers. the guy selling it has raved about it. has race details from willow springs, in the 90's.

there is a bump in the hood from the timing cover, aside from that it looks to be a sweet deal. (this is besides what i have already said)

:idea: any specifics about what to look for (aside from tearing it apart)
I am told that there are cracking problems around the threaded holes in the block, for the head bolts. I've looked mine over carefully and don't see anything. However!! I have a theory!!...

I've taken a Z head, installed a head bolt and measured just how much threaded bolt protrudes down into the block. Then I measured the depth of the threaded holes in the block and found two things,...First, the holes aren't threaded for the first 1/4 inch or so, and second, the bolts don't reach anywhere near the bottom of the hole! By my measurements, only about 3/8 of an inch of threads actually are engaged in clamping the head on. Do you think this might pull and stretch the block and cause cracking? When I put it together, I plan to use longer bolts!

To-day was lovely weather so I pulled the Z20E intake/head/exhaust manifold off the 200sx as one unit. Partly because the EGR tubing from the exhaust wraps around the head from driver's to passenger side, and are near impossible to unbolt, so I'll try to swap the head onto my L20B as one unit.

Still have to harvest the EFI harness and 'brain', throttle cable, Z timing cover, chain and lower crank sprocket, exhaust down pipe (hope it fits under cab, this is an L block, with Z intake/exhaust rotated to the passenger side, so the pipe will be lifted up slightly). I have a Z22 4X4 truck manifold to try if not. Need the elec. fuel pump too.

The guys at the yard said they wouldn't let anyone strip stuff off of it, so I was pissed to find the rad gone! Maybe icehouse came up and got it for his KA project. But, I said to myself, you don't need it that bad, don't be greedy, besides someone saved you half an hour, draining and removing it so you could get at the front of the motor. I was right. Not about icehouse.
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Post by datzenmike » 27 Jan 2007 16:15

Well, I have all the wiring harness and 'brain'. While I was at it I got the ALL the timing stuff, housing. oil pump/dist drive, guides, tensioner, crank pully, everything! Forgot the valve cover and all the nuts&bolts in it last week. Brought it all home and stored it. The oil pressure gage sender is mounted on an upward angle via a brass fitting. When I installed my gear reduction starter, it blocks the removal of the one on my L20B. Must remember to add this on to the block.

Well. only the electric fuel pump, throttle cable, vacuum line to the brake booster left to get.

Has anyone noticed a similarity between the standard steering box on the 200sx and a 510?
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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Post by vgwagon » 27 Jan 2007 22:56

I have heard that it can be used in the 510, but I have only seen one 1980 200sx with manual steering and I never was able to verify.
I have seen it written that it will work.
I know for certain that the power steering box won't, it's way to big.
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Post by vgwagon » 27 Jan 2007 23:03

Does the 200sx in your wrecker over there have a 200sx with a manual box?
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Post by datzenmike » 28 Jan 2007 12:29

vgwagon wrote:Does the 200sx in your wrecker over there have a 200sx with a manual box?
Why yes, yes it does! Manual steering, '80 200sx

The other 200sx I have has P/S and yes, it looks bigger but the pitman arm should be in the same place for steering geometry and the column should be too.
Attachments
p s 200sx  280.JPG
This P/S is from an '80 or '81 280z but looks very similer to the '81 200sx that I also have.
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Post by RacnJsn » 28 Jan 2007 14:56

You have a Z20e? Or there is on in the junkyard near you? I've been looking for some Z20E rods the 153.2mm or whatever they are ones for quite some time, but all we have around here is Z24s... What are the odds that you want to sell them? Or pull them for me if they're in a JY... I'll glady give you $$...

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Post by datzenmike » 29 Jan 2007 07:44

The one in the yard is a '79 on the door tag which makes it an '80 production. I have an '81 and they are identical to look at. My manual lists them as Z20E, but J G lists the early ones as the same as L20 B and Z22 at 145.9mm. The later ones are supposed to be 152.5 but there are lists identifing them incorrectly. So who is right?
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Post by vgwagon » 29 Jan 2007 10:02

datzenmike wrote:
vgwagon wrote:Does the 200sx in your wrecker over there have a 200sx with a manual box?
Why yes, yes it does! Manual steering, '80 200sx

The other 200sx I have has P/S and yes, it looks bigger but the pitman arm should be in the same place for steering geometry and the column should be too.
Do you think you could grab that box for me?
Or take a pic?
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69 510 VG30e swapped
73 240z VG30et swapped
86 300zx na2t VG30et converted

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Post by RacnJsn » 29 Jan 2007 12:32

datzenmike wrote:The one in the yard is a '79 on the door tag which makes it an '80 production. I have an '81 and they are identical to look at. My manual lists them as Z20E, but J G lists the early ones as the same as L20 B and Z22 at 145.9mm. The later ones are supposed to be 152.5 but there are lists identifing them incorrectly. So who is right?
According to the "Jason Grey" page, the Z20E with the long rods came in the 80, and 81 200sx... However the 80-81 HL510 did not get the long rods... So as long as both are out of, or in a 200sx, I think it would be a safe bet... But if you're unsure about the 80, I think the 81 would be the safest bet, as long as it is a Z20E, and not a Z20S. But that's all I really know, just what I've read here and there. I've never been able to find on around here. The only 200sx I've seen had an A14 in it or something.

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Post by datzenmike » 29 Jan 2007 12:41

I agree, the older the better chance. The distance is between centerline crankshaft and wrist pin I believe. I would have to see about pulling and measuring, I should be able to identify one way or the other with a difference of over 6mm. hope you are'nt in too much of a hurry. lol
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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