LZ 23 .... nope KAZ23S

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datzenmike
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Post by datzenmike » 10 Feb 2007 14:36

RacnJsn wrote:That's awesome! I hope you did it in the rain just because you wanted to see what they really were, and not because I want them :) So is this YOUR 80 200sx? Or is it in a junkard somewhere?


LOL I heard yesterday that today would be terrible, and it was only drizzle Fri. PM and I got off early so... Yeah, I was curious too. I got one out and took home and put it on the wood stove to dry out. I went back this AM (and it's beautiful and mild out, figures eh?) and got the other 3 and wrapped them in plastic.
It's not 'my' 200sx, I bought it for parts and it stays at the yard. I just go up and get what I need. The guys there keep an eye on it for me and don't let anyone else strip it, but still the rad disappeared! I don't have room at home, and this motivates me to get what I want before someone else wanders by and grabs a critical small part. I do have a second '81 200sx in someones back yard (same deal). It might have a second set of 152.5mm rods too.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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Post by datzenmike » 10 Feb 2007 17:30

vgwagon wrote:
Do you think you could grab that box for me?
Or take a pic?
It was best to just remove it and take home for a photo op. I'll get my son's digital and get some shots Sun. They are smaller than P/S ones.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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Post by datzenmike » 11 Feb 2007 13:50

vgwagon wrote:
Do you think you could grab that box for me?
Or take a pic?
It was best to just remove it and take home for a photo op. Cleaned up like a new penny.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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"80 280zx P/S box

Post by datzenmike » 11 Feb 2007 13:52

Here's a P/S box from a Z car It's very similer to the 200sx P/S one I have. Other than the 4 mountong bolts, it's longer front to back but about the same height I think. Some when, I'll pull it and post photos of it to be sure.
Both 200sx's are the same car, one P/S, one standard steering, so they must be close.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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vgwagon
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RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by vgwagon » 11 Feb 2007 14:13

I had that power steering box from the 200sx that I wreckered a couple years back, it's huge and way to big to make work...if I remember correctly there is frame rail interference.
How much do you want for the manual box?
Denis Gagné
AKA VGwagon

69 510 VG30e swapped
73 240z VG30et swapped
86 300zx na2t VG30et converted

datzenmike
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RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by datzenmike » 11 Feb 2007 16:54

Just make an offer for my trouble (I did take it out in the rain, after all!!) lol. I can Greyhound it to you or jason's work, or whatever.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by RacnJsn » 18 Feb 2007 22:41

So does the offer for the free rods still stand, as long as I pay shipping? Or should I offer you some $$ for doing it in the rain? :)

datzenmike
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RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by datzenmike » 20 Feb 2007 17:55

Hey!!
Sure, I was just leery sending something international, but several have told me what they do and what to expect, so... I'll give it a try!!!
I have to find a way to get the pistons off (unless you want them?) P/M me your mailing address, and I'll go to Canada Post, get the package weighed and the cost to ship to you, and fill out the form, or whatever. Is sending by mail ok with you?
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by datzenmike » 16 Mar 2007 18:56

To sum up, I now have all the EFI electrical, wiring harness and control box from the '80 200sx. (I have a second complete set up, but it's been sitting and I know this one was running a few months ago.) I removed the entire intake/manifold/head/exhaust manifold, as one complete unit, and the air flow meter and hoses as a third separate unit. (less parts and connections to remember) Last was the electric fuel pump and I lucked out. It's been replaced with a brand new after market one that is clean and shiny. I also got the exhaust down pipe so I can match it to the truck system and the relay box so I can hook up the 10 second cold start enrichment and two fuel pump relays so it will shut off if there's ever an accident with a fuel leak. As the weather warms I would like to put this entire system on top of my L20B block. There's a wright up on Datsun 1200 on how easy it is to hook up these early EFI systems with only 7 wires.

Can't find much info on the three Z series heads. But I now have a Z20E, a Z22S and a Z24 head and by looking I can see that the Z24 head chambers are wider across at the bore than the Z22S and Z20E. In fact the Z20 and Z22 look the same size and probably are. The Z22 has dished pistons to allow for the larger displacement. The dish on the Z24 isn't enough by itself, so the chambers are larger on the Z24 head. The intake ports are square-ish on the Z24, and round on the Z20E/Z22S, with the Z20E having notches for the injectors in the tops of these ports. The intake bolt patterns are the same on all three, so I test fitted a spare Z20 EFI manifold onto the Z24 head, and it looks like it fits even though it's a round onto a square port. I did not want to use the Z20 head on the Z24 motor to make it EFI, as the compression would be just under 10 to 1. Now I can use the Z20 EFI intake on the Z24 head. My plan is to get the EFI up and running on the L20B and build a Z24 and replace it. Maybe I'll have the first Z24E motor? With factory parts only? Mmmaybe. I have an '81 200sx Z series 5 spd for it.

I see what they say about the short side radius on these heads is (somewhat) true. With extra heads, I'm going to take one apart and monkey with it. Looking in through the ports I can see that the valve seats don't blend into the port walls very well so there's a starting point. At the moment I see that the port runners are short and smoothly formed with a long valve guide showing because of their tilt from the vertical, unlike the L series. More later on this. (maybe)
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by datzenmike » 18 Mar 2007 18:51

It was so nice outside to-day that I pulled the Z22 head apart. A few bolts and the lifters lift off in one piece and stay in order... nice! The cam lifts up and out of the five cradles cast into the head... also nice and easy. I removed the valves and springs, labeled and bagged them for later. The springs do look a little thin, but the intakes measure larger than the L series and the exhaust are the same size. Is this right? I thought the Z didn't breathe. Must be the cam and/or weak springs. Both ports are short, smoothly rounded with a grainy finish easily polished out. No lumps, bumps or casting seams. There is a very sharp edge at the short turn radius, fron machining below the valve seat. Easy to get at and smooth. There is a small shrowding near the intake plug and on the opposite side near the cylinder wall, again easily got at and rounded.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by datzenmike » 18 Mar 2007 18:51

It was so nice outside to-day that I pulled the Z22 head apart. A few bolts and the lifters lift off in one piece and stay in order... nice! The cam lifts up and out of the five cradles cast into the head... also nice and easy. I removed the valves and springs, labeled and bagged them for later. The springs do look a little thin, but the intakes measure larger than the L series and the exhaust are the same size. Is this right? I thought the Z didn't breathe. Must be the cam and/or weak springs. Both ports are short, smoothly rounded with a grainy finish easily polished out. No lumps, bumps or casting seams. There is a very sharp edge at the short turn radius, fron machining below the valve seat. Easy to get at and smooth. There is a small shrowding near the intake plug and on the opposite side near the cylinder wall, again easily got at, smoothed and rounded.

Have to get my roto tool out and try re-working some spots and smoothing others. I suppose nice stiff L springs won't fit...maybe I can substitute 305 Chevy. lol nuf for now
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by datzenmike » 02 May 2007 21:23

Have completed porting the Z22 8 plug head and a Z24 8 plug. I plan to install the Z22 head w/EFI on my L20B and get it running first, then rebuild the larger Z24 and put the EFI on that re-worked head.

I enlarged the exhaust ports to match the gaskets on both heads but not the intake as I will match it to the EFI intake gasket on the Z22 head and try to more closely match the round EFI to the square port on the Z24 head. Areas below both valve seats were rounded and smoothed including the short radius which has sharp edges from machining for the valve seat. This may not be new, but I also ground into the valve seat (but not the valve face) in order to increase this short radius area, and take some of the bend out of it. All the valve seats have been slightly rounded above and below the valve face to 'blend' into the chamber or the port walls. Sort of like a 3 angle valve job but on the valve seats.

According to Jason Grey : "The Z20E head I examined had 37mm intake ports and 42mm intake/ 38mm exhaust valves and 45cc (dual plug) open chambers." Here is what I have found out about the Z heads that I have: the Canadian 200sx Z20E 4 plug head is 57cc (not 45cc) as is the Z22 and the Z24 head. Except for the 8 plugs, the Z22 head is identical to the Z20E with round intake ports. The Z24 has a wider chamber to fit over the larger bore and thus the two valves are less shrouded than the Z20/Z22, but with the same head volume of 57cc. It also has a squarish intake port with the same bolt pattern, so that a Z20/Z22 intake (or EFI) will fit it.

BTW, Both chamber designs are open, however putting the slightly smaller chamber diameter Z20/Z22 head on the larger bore Z24 would produce a 2mm quench ring around each cylinder. Not really enough to induce any serious swirl I would think.

Because the Z20/Z22 heads are similar, I'm going with the 8 plug one. Both the Z20Es and the Z22 motor I have use flat top pistons in them, and this is why the chambers are 57cc. (obviously putting a 45cc L head on one of these would up the comp. to 9.9 to one). So in order to use the 57cc head I will have to mill it down to a final volume of around 45cc to raise the comp. to around the stock 8.4. This works out to about 0.085" or about 2.16 mm. Shaving this much off may alter cam timing, and as there are no cam towers on this head to shim, I'll have to be creative.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by datzenmike » 29 Jun 2007 21:26

Well after pricing rings and bearings in the last seven weeks (ouch) I found a Z24 in an '84 truck that was rolled. I got the price down to $200 and after a few false starts...

Well the old '78 parts truck is gone. I left work early and went to the yard to get my Z24 as it's closed on long w/ends and I forgot. Some asshole pulled the oil pump off of it but didn't take it. What was weird was that it's a high volume pump like those on the KAs. Some one has also taken the carb, the starter and the alt. but I have lots of extras so its just less stuff to take off anyway. The plan is to take it out with the auto tranny and split it later (much easier out)

We loaded it and I took it home and started pulling the tranny which I'll return as I don't want it. It's not part of the deal and if you saw the brownish red crap that drained out of it you wouldn't either! I pulled the exhaust pipe off and there was no carbon at all inside the manifold. The block has the original grey/blue paint with a light dusting of dirt on it, no black oily dirt a half inch thick on it.

Now here's the best part. The truck was an '84 720 w/Z24 carb engine. When I removed the tranny, painted on the auto flywheel was...

Image

Wooo Hoo!!!
I now have an '88 Z24i motor!!!!!!! Maybe this is why it had the high volume oil pump. The Z24i was a throttle body injection motor but the '84 carb and intake was put on it when it was swapped. There is even intake bolts missing! This motor is four years newer than I thought and was FI and automatic, so not too much wear 'n tear on it. Also no-one's going to swap a crappy motor into their truck, so it should run. (it was running when it was rolled)
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

datzenmike
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Re: RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by datzenmike » 06 Sep 2007 20:44

I now have the Z24 in my truck after replacing missing intake bolts, Z22 carb, a wiggly water pump, replace missing distributor with a spare Z22 unit I have, my custom alt and bracket, install the 720 P/S hard lines to P/S pump below...

Image[/img]

It looks like this after four or five ins and outs before I felt that I could safely bolt it up

Image[/img]

Used the L20B rubber mounts and the Z24 engine brackets, no probs. I am using an '81 200sx 5 spd with the Z24 so I put a 225mm flywheel on it that weighs just over 20 lbs. The 225mm flywheel from the L20B weighs 29 lbs, I think this lighter one may be from a 280Z car, not sure.

Image[/img]

Top 29 lb 225mm truck flywheel, engine side.
Bottom 21 lb 225mm (280Z ?) flywheel, engine side, note missing material.

Image

Went with the lighter one with the heavier crank Z24 engine, re used the truck clutch & p/p. Have a Z22 rad waiting but may get a KA rad FWD with electric fans.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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jason
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RE: Re: RE: "80 280zx P/S box

Post by jason » 07 Sep 2007 00:22

Looking good Mike!
Jason

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