Making a stock 510 go fast turning left only

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RossParks
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Making a stock 510 go fast turning left only

Post by RossParks » 06 Jan 2008 06:17

Guys, need some suggestions on how to make a 'stock as it can be' 71 510 2dr go around a 7 degree 1/4 mile oval fast. We run against 87-91 1.5L SOHC Honda Civics. We are building an L18. Is this all about suspension really or what? Please email me directly as well if you can. Any help appreciated. Best to you for the new year. Ross.

flyingcow@eastlink.ca (rules link below)

http://www.scotiaspeedworld.ca/rules/20 ... er_car.pdf

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bertvorgon
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RE: Making a stock 510 go fast turning left only

Post by bertvorgon » 06 Jan 2008 07:46

Rats...I guess they knew I was going to look at tire size right off the bat. I would still measure the mounted tires you may have, and put the tallest ones to the outside, you never know what manufacturing tolerances may produce.
I would try more castor on the right, than on the left, as this will both induce more negative camber, and help pull the car to the left due to the unequal castor. Also try some toe OUT on the driver side, this will help the car turn in to the left.
Can you move the battery? I would put it in the left rear of the car if you can, trying to get the weight off the right side of the car any way you can.
Obviously tire pressure differential will help with the "stagger" of the car.
If you can get away with it, put a subtle spacer(s) on top of the rear spring perch and front strut, to try to weight jack the car a bit. ( on the right side of course)

As for the motor, you could talk to Jeff at COLT CAMS, as he could specify a nice torquey camshaft for you.

Where are you located?

Your biggest problem, in my opinion, will be to control the rear end from getting TOO much oversteer. The poor design of the 510 rear causes the rear to TOE OUT. The key will be to use this to your advantage, with out it being a liability, as you try to use the throttle to steer the car. Pay attention to that, and fiddle with it as the rules allow. IF it was me trying this, I would set it up as my cars is, with NO rear toe out, then the ability to fine tune the whole package can be done with the front/rear roll resistance, and the throttle. I would be trying different spring rates side to side also.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Danthewire
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Post by Danthewire » 06 Jan 2008 15:17

Man what a limited set of rules.The 7 degree banking,does it transition down to a flat straightaway?Is the track smooth or rough,is it paved or dirt?Is it narrow eg.one groove?Does it have a round configuration,or a paperclip configuration?Give me some more info,i missspent my youth racing 510's on ovals.Pay VERY close attention to what Bertvorgon posted,about the rear of the car.DAN

RossParks
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Post by RossParks » 06 Jan 2008 15:19

Hey thanks. Car must be level front to back and must use all stock parts as close as we can. Camber must be zero with no tolerance. Thanks so much for your input though. I think by the time we finish the new brakes, new suspension and motor work, we found a stock A87 closed chamber peanut head, we should be good out of the box. The guy we have driving is well versed on rear wheel drives and what you suggested about driving with the throttle in corners, he should be very good at. Again thanks. Ross.

RossParks
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Post by RossParks » 06 Jan 2008 15:23

Thank you. I'd love to speak to you on the phone if possible? My number is 902-869-2000. Call anytime and leave your number and I'll give you a call. Where are you located? To answer some of your questions below.

Almost flat straights. Ashpalt. Smooth. Round as round can be based upon the size. Best times are about 18.5 sec. 4-5 grooves on back, 2 1/2 in corners and 3 on front straight. Check out the rules link above. Thanks. Ross.



Man what a limited set of rules.The 7 degree banking,does it transition down to a flat straightaway?Is the track smooth or rough,is it paved or dirt?Is it narrow eg.one groove?Does it have a round configuration,or a paperclip configuration?Give me some more info,i missspent my youth racing 510's on ovals.Pay VERY close attention to what Bertvorgon posted,about the rear of the car.DAN

RossParks
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Post by RossParks » 06 Jan 2008 15:24

car must also be level left to right and must use the same tire size for all 4 wheels.

e_racer1999
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Post by e_racer1999 » 06 Jan 2008 16:31

all stock parts? reground stock cam>:D?
Jason King
1972 240Z
1971 510 4dr

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S15DET
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Post by S15DET » 06 Jan 2008 17:18

They didn't list suspension springs, and they didn't mention ride height. Can you lower the car, as long as it's level, and camber is zero?

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S15DET
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Post by S15DET » 06 Jan 2008 17:20

The good thing is that few people will know anything about 510's, so you might be able to use 280Z struts, even if it's just for the larger wheel bearing using stock 510 brakes.

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bertvorgon
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Post by bertvorgon » 06 Jan 2008 19:13

Look at some 610 stuff.....nudge, nudge, wink, wink....(if you can find it)

Also, you could "bend" the rear arm to get toe in, so the suspension looks stock. yah, I agree with S15, you could use two different sets of springs. if camber has to be zero, then try the castor trick...it can be done with some creativity....You likely should try to use 300 at the front and 1100 at the rear, as that is going to be the best roll control you can get, or, can you use ANY size anti-roll bar?

wow, this reminds me of the DRC battles...look out Smokey Yunick......

If you have to use the stock insert, which the rule implies...drain the factory oil, and put 20-30w Belray motorcycle fork oil in. I solo'ed with that for years and it works just fine, maintains the factory bump/ rebound, just slows things a bit, which should be fine in the roundy round world.

Where it says camber must be zero for all four wheels is going to be kinda tough on a 510, as the very nature of the rear end will give you negative and positive camber as it moves through it's arc. This is where you must try to run a really stiff spring, or, try to find a truck shock, nudge, nudge, wink , wink, that will go into the space, and try to use that for slowing the weight transfer, and hence any toe out. The 510 rear will just kill you for making it unstable under trailing throttle/and/or brake. You will be at a very distinct disadvantage right off the bat, unless you get some rear toe in, and lots of it.

I don't think the organizers full appreciate the uniqueness of a 510 in this show.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

goichi
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Post by goichi » 06 Jan 2008 20:20

left turn, left turn....vroom vroom.....isn't this NASCAR Racing???? :wink:

RossParks
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Post by RossParks » 07 Jan 2008 04:55

Thank you guys. Great info. I've printed off and made my notes. Seems the rear suspension is the key to keeping the little independent rear sus stiff in the corners.

Do any of you know this cam grinding guy in Cali? Don Potter? Dan gave me his name, but if you know how to track him down OR someone who can do a cam for me that would be fantastic.

Where would I find 1100 pound rear springs? Thanks again all.

..........just like Nascar...round and round. The 510 is destined to be our 'Z Club car' come 2009. See our site if you haven't been there. http://www.atlanticz.ca.

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bertvorgon
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Post by bertvorgon » 07 Jan 2008 08:11

Colt Cams is very knowledgable about the L-series motors

http://www.coltcams.com/about.html
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

e_racer1999
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Post by e_racer1999 » 07 Jan 2008 09:44

my Z cam is a schnieder regrind. it's who motorsport auto uses to make their cams. they're local here in san diego
Jason King
1972 240Z
1971 510 4dr

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