Scary times

Suspension, including wheel, tire and brake.
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bertvorgon
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Scary times

Postby bertvorgon » 18 Apr 2017 19:00

I post this up as I am a bit of shock after a discussion today with an old club member looking for tires.

I went looking at Yokohama tires again, where I now see that the 048 is done and the tire that Norm bought, the a050 is now being replaced by the next generation, the a052...but...

it only starts in 16" tire size. That is a BIG deal for me, as I tried the Toyo R888's and hated them, so what else is out there in a street legal race tire, where it is a big gamble, for ME, as to how that tire's sidewall feels on my car.

DAMN I hate change......
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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duke
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Re: Scary times

Postby duke » 18 Apr 2017 20:11

Keith, what size tires do you run? I think that the venerable 205/50-15 size will be available in many different options for a long time, as this is a very popular size for Miatas.

For tire suggestions, you may look at the Nitto NT-01. I have heard very good things about them from multiple people.
Duke Schimmer

'72 2-Door 510
"Simplify and add lightness."

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bertvorgon
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Re: Scary times

Postby bertvorgon » 18 Apr 2017 20:17

I do run the 205/50 x 15 size.

My concern, founded or not, is that I really like a firm sidewall construction, as my car was set up for Goodyear Cantilever race slicks at the time. The Yoko's are very close to that, so the car just feels like it is/was on slicks, and I can run 30 - 32 PSI and all is good.

I found with say those Toyos that I was up to almost 40 PSI and the rear of the car still felt scary, which is NOT what my car has been about....total predictability.
The issue is the cost to experiment should I not be able to get Yoko's, a known quantity! The Toyo experiment cost me a lot from my purchase cost to resale cost, and, cost me a shitty summer of driving, where I did not quite trust my car at high speed corner entry.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: Scary times

Postby funwithmonkeys » 18 Apr 2017 22:06

There is also the Pirelli P-Zero Trofeo R. It has the same firm sidewall as the A050 for running lower pressures. They come in our size and are around $150/tire USD. They are 60 treadwear like the yokohama's also. From what I have read they are very comparable. They come up to temp quickly and give you a sharp turn in. I think it will either be them or the NT01 for my next set. I'm sure the A050's will get hard before I wear them out. I am running around with them at 28psi hot and the still show minimal wear after 2 seasons of beating on them.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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bertvorgon
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Re: Scary times

Postby bertvorgon » 19 Apr 2017 07:09

I like the sounds of the Nitto's and they have good reviews, for what that is worth. Comments mention the stiff sidewall, which is key for not having a rolly polly tire that needs 40+ PSI to retain shape.

I will be good for another season or so on my Yoko's, going to ROTATE my tires this time. Wheels are off the car right now waiting for brake bleed, so front to rear it will be.

They also look a lot easier to get than Yokohama which is nice too.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: Scary times

Postby funwithmonkeys » 20 Apr 2017 08:57

Keith, Tyson uses the NT-01. He seems to like them.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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icehouse
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Re: Scary times

Postby icehouse » 20 Apr 2017 10:15

I was talking with a shop a while back (can't remember the name) and from what they said you can get a custom run of any size tire you want for around 15k. We just need to get Dave at FutoFab to stock some 225 45 13 in the Yokahama tire we want.
I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

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Re: Scary times

Postby bertvorgon » 20 Apr 2017 11:30

13's???

And WHO would be making the tire? More to tires than just throwing some rubber in a mold like for the custom car guys. I want to know that at 140 MPH my tire is not going to let me down.

For racing maybe but I like the top end I have with my 23" tall tire now.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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icehouse
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Re: Scary times

Postby icehouse » 20 Apr 2017 12:32

The shop was going to order the custom tires from an actual company like Toyo, or Yokahama. I'm going to bug them this year at SEMA

You don't want 13's? I hate the way my car looks with 15's, looks tall and dorky. I love how frank's car used to look with his 13's they were 235's though.



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I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

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RMS
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Re: Scary times

Postby RMS » 20 Apr 2017 14:56

I love me some 13s on a dime . Im currently running the federal 595 @ 205 65 r13s $140ca mounted and balanced. great on greasy roads cuts through standing water, no noticeable hydroplaning. better in the wet than the Michelin rainforce and they gave me whiplash at auto x :mrgreen: Image
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if I had some wider 13s that would clear the z brakes I would consider the Dmack DMT-rc 225 45 r13 to 195 50r13 $65f to $150eu + importer fees
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or

toyo proxes @ 225 45r13 $136usd
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or

Kumho ECSTA V70A 215 50r13, 225 and 235 45r13 $206ca
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two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

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bertvorgon
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Re: Scary times

Postby bertvorgon » 20 Apr 2017 19:45

I guess I'm "DORKY"....won't be the first time.... :lol:

I'm more concerned about gearing than looks at this point, my car is actually set up for 13" x 20" tall race tires for all the reasons, but, in the driving we/I do now, having the top end is just great.
Attachments
13 inch X 7 inch Panasports.JPG
13" Panasports with 032
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15" VTO wheels with 048
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"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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icehouse
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Re: Scary times

Postby icehouse » 20 Apr 2017 20:39

I'm totally going to run 13's on my car as soon as we do the narrowed control arms.

Keith our car doesn't look bad with big wheels. I think flares helps the look.

RMS I have 13" watt's on my sunny with zx brakes. But the 13" Enkies I have won't fit.


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I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

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Byron510
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Re: Scary times

Postby Byron510 » 23 Apr 2017 08:14

The Bronze was also set up to run 13x7 Libre's, but we had to switch to 15's 10 years ago when good tires became non-existent. I agree with Keith, we'll be stepping into new territory or brands now. I too have run Yoko's ever since I built this car, it's hard to step away from a known brand and quality.

With 13's, staring down at James beautiful 240Z;

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And 15's in my old back yard;

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Bronze 2013 (Medium).JPG (266.99 KiB) Viewed 462 times


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bertvorgon
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Re: Scary times

Postby bertvorgon » 23 Apr 2017 08:32

It is the "known quantity" thing for sure, as I did enough experimenting with springs and shocks back in the 70's and 80's, been there done that. After buying those R888's I found that a really bad experience. I was up to almost 40 PSI and the car still moved around on the carcass on turn in, really cost me a summer of fun. I jut never trusted the rear. I never said anything but that last drive we did to Winthrop, where we really blasted through the twisty's was a bit of a white knuckler for me.

A set of tires is a very expensive "experiment" these days so when the time comes........I will do as much reading as possible. I should have read about those Toyo's and then maybe extrapolated as much information as I could. In reading about the Nitto's, there so far is a comment on the stiff sidewall, which again is really how my car transmits information to the seat of my pants.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Re: Scary times

Postby funwithmonkeys » 23 Apr 2017 11:21

There are these also.
http://www.nankangtyre.co.uk/performance/motorsport/ar-1
A set of 4 is about $700 to my door. They are getting great reviews. Again they are an unknown but the price is pretty good
they come in sizes down to 13" also.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?


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