Cam sensor on L-Series

Engine, Transmission and related drivetrain.
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VelvetHammer
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Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby VelvetHammer » 31 May 2017 13:28

Anyone ever installed a cam sensor on an L-series motor? (I'm running a EFI system)
I was going to fab a 8 tooth wheel (-2 for reference) in place of that washer stack.

Just need to figure out how to phase to crank (researching now) and how to accurately mount the sensor so it lines up with index tooth.

IMG_1087.JPG
IMG_1087.JPG (237.76 KiB) Viewed 382 times


I'd like to avoid it sticking directly out of the front of the valve cover, maybe off to the side.

IMG_1084.JPG
IMG_1084.JPG (243.28 KiB) Viewed 382 times


Any ideas?

Thanks,
Cory

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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby 510rob » 31 May 2017 21:37

I've pondered how to mount a cam sensor to an L-series quite a few time now. No resolution, just ideas...

Idea 1 ---> (from HybridZ guys) - modified Jeep 4.0L Cam Synchronization sensor
http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/125904- ... -l-series/


Idea 2 ---> You can go in tangentially to the axis like you are in your picture OR you could go in from the front of the valve cover
  • Drill a hole in the front of the valve cover
  • make & mount a dummy cam washer for spacing/perpendicularity
  • turn an appropriate slug of metal to the size of your hole (hole saw hole in the front of the cover
  • weld that sucker in place!
  • potentially solved, although I don't like the idea of having a potentially loose nut located inside the engine, particularly near the cam chain...

Idea 3 ---> I noticed that if you make a new oil fill cap, that anything mounted coaxial with the cap would more or less points right at one of the cam lobes. If the hall sensor can pick that up, that makes for a relatively easy positioning and reduces a rather involved fabrication project into being simply a lathe-turned part.

Sidenote - this is the sensor I was planning to use.
---> https://www.melexis.com/en/product/MLX9 ... Cam-Sensor

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510wizard
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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby 510wizard » 01 Jun 2017 07:46

How about out the back of the cam like they used to do with a mechanical tach, as shown in the "Bible".

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VelvetHammer
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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby VelvetHammer » 01 Jun 2017 08:41

510wizard wrote:How about out the back of the cam like they used to do with a mechanical tach, as shown in the "Bible".


ah I don't remember that section, I'll dig out the books and take a look. Not sure what the advantage would be mounting it on the backside of the cam?

I'm told some have pressed a magnet into the cam gear and mounted the sensor in the face of the timing cover. Aesthetically I'm not a big fan of that sensor placement, AND since the sprocket is a wear item it seems to make more sense to make a removable wheel that is registered to the sprocket (maybe with a dowel that fits into one of the unused timing holes on the sprocket). That way you don't have to drill and press a magnet in every time you change the cam gear, which admittedly isn't very often...

Solving nonexistent problems is my speciality, but only if it makes everything more complex by making it simple.

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VelvetHammer
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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby VelvetHammer » 01 Jun 2017 08:52

510rob wrote:I've pondered how to mount a cam sensor to an L-series quite a few time now. No resolution, just ideas...

Idea 1 ---> (from HybridZ guys) - modified Jeep 4.0L Cam Synchronization sensor
http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/125904- ... -l-series/

Idea 2 ---> You can go in tangentially to the axis like you are in your picture OR you could go in from the front of the valve cover
  • Drill a hole in the front of the valve cover
  • make & mount a dummy cam washer for spacing/perpendicularity
  • turn an appropriate slug of metal to the size of your hole (hole saw hole in the front of the cover
  • weld that sucker in place!
  • potentially solved, although I don't like the idea of having a potentially loose nut located inside the engine, particularly near the cam chain...

Idea 3 ---> I noticed that if you make a new oil fill cap, that anything mounted coaxial with the cap would more or less points right at one of the cam lobes. If the hall sensor can pick that up, that makes for a relatively easy positioning and reduces a rather involved fabrication project into being simply a lathe-turned part.

Sidenote - this is the sensor I was planning to use.
---> https://www.melexis.com/en/product/MLX9 ... Cam-Sensor


Some interesting takes on this! Not sure how Idea 3 works though. Wouldn't the sensor need to have a more of a square wave signal? I'd be worried that the decreasing lobe arc wouldn't be sharp enough to give a clear signal. Although at those rotational speeds it's possible?

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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby 510rob » 01 Jun 2017 10:24

VelvetHammer wrote:Some interesting takes on this! Not sure how Idea 3 works though. Wouldn't the sensor need to have a more of a square wave signal? I'd be worried that the decreasing lobe arc wouldn't be sharp enough to give a clear signal. Although at those rotational speeds it's possible?


The Melexis sensor was the trick in that sense...

melexis mlx90217 1.jpg
melexis mlx90217 1.jpg (194.52 KiB) Viewed 340 times


melexis mlx90217 2.jpg
melexis mlx90217 2.jpg (131.99 KiB) Viewed 340 times


Melexis Data sheet wrote:Features and Benefits
  • Geartooth Sensor
  • Zero Speed Detection
  • Insensitive to Orientation
  • Short Circuit Protection
  • Self-Adjusting Magnetic Range
  • On-chip 10 bit A/D Converter
  • High Speed Operation
  • No Chopper Delay

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VelvetHammer
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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby VelvetHammer » 01 Jun 2017 22:16

510rob wrote:
The Melexis sensor was the trick in that sense...



Ah ok, thanks! My mental fog prevented me from fully grasping the data sheet, and the notion of the back bias magnet. I googled it a bit and now I think I get it. So, you'd have to epoxy the magnet to the sensor, then mount? I didn't see any air gap specs on the data sheet either, how close does it need to be?.

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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby 510rob » 02 Jun 2017 08:58

this is a crude sketch of what I was thinking about, but realizing it never went anywhere because other things in life have been higher priority

gray = a lump of threaded steel, perhaps with some kind of favorable tip geometry (a flathead screwdriver blade kind of idea, to focus the magnetic field.

black = melexis sensor

blue = some kind of small neo magnet, glued to the back of the sensor. the datasheet suggests using cyanoacrylite (super duper glue).

The top end could be encased in epoxy for long-term protection. blah blah blah... It always seemed like it could work quite well, but it also seemed like it could turn into a mini science project.
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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby Byron510 » 02 Jun 2017 10:44

Because Jeff's sense of humor will be wiped out in a day or two - this is a photo of his link; :-)

6-2-2017 10-41-31 AM.jpg
6-2-2017 10-41-31 AM.jpg (152 KiB) Viewed 295 times


Stay calm and carry on L series lovers.

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby 510rob » 02 Jun 2017 14:39

Oh, but wait... How can that be mounted to the valve cover of an L-series?!? :P

Why not get that engine and add this to it for MOAR everything...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Primera-P12-SR20 ... WX&vxp=mtr

Or just say fuck it and get this one instead. C'mon, Jefffffffff, you know you want one of these...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Jdm-Nissan-X-Tra ... 9J&vxp=mtr

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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby Byron510 » 02 Jun 2017 15:06

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Jdm-Nissan-X-Tra ... 9J&vxp=mtr

Damn - that one's still got the transmission on it - might as well leave it in the X-Trail in came in. No one would ever suspect a 280 HP Cute Ute SUV at your local stop light grand prix - sure surprise the hell out of someone. Combine this with 4 shit tires and you'd have a sideways machine like never before - chewing up all four wheels! Or for those so inclined back yard engineering types, the ultimate AWD 510..... :D

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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby icehouse » 02 Jun 2017 17:04

The SR I posted is out of the Spec-R S15 Autech Siliva making factory 197 to the wheels out of an NA 2.0L!! Red line of 7800 :) Although the 20V head is better but it's a project to get it setup for RWD application. The Autech SR would go in so easy! Wish my wife was working. I would have to order it.
I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

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VelvetHammer
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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby VelvetHammer » 02 Jun 2017 20:58

Wait. So you guys are saying there are OTHER engines??
What year did they start that... -sounds of world crumbling-

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Re: Cam sensor on L-Series

Postby VelvetHammer » 02 Jun 2017 21:01

510rob wrote:this is a crude sketch of what I was thinking about...


If you're familiar with South Park, your drawing reminded me of this.

underpants.jpg
underpants.jpg (26.06 KiB) Viewed 280 times


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