Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Suspension, including wheel, tire and brake.

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bertvorgon
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby bertvorgon » 01 Aug 2017 07:49

I find it surprising with this article, that no mention of the shock as being part of a "suspension" package.

I totally get that too firm a spring can be a bad thing and maybe don't get the majority of aftermarket crap and marketing out there, sells people stuff they really have no idea about, and have bought it because they read about Billy thinking it was a great idea.

What should have been included in that article is that matching a proper shock is also very important, and why.

As I have said many times, to use my 510 as an example, with #300 fronts, if you disconnect the shock, it bounces like gramma's clapped out Buick. It is getting the proper shock valving and rate, that is key to keeping the wheel on the road under all circumstances. I will concede that part of my suspension was to also increase roll control and weight transfer, yet I can still blaze some very rough roads with contact at all times.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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TheHeretic
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby TheHeretic » 09 Aug 2017 10:35

This has been my experience as well. Tracked an E36 M3 with some well-known coilovers and any bump in the corners unsettled the car immediately. Went down to some progressive H&R springs that were only about 20% stiffer than stock and some well-matched Konis and the car performed beautifully at the track. Was about the same time around the track as before but the experience on and off the track was much more comfortable.

Working on a new full coilover setup with Swift providing the springs. Pretty good read on them here - http://swiftsprings.com/tech/advantage.html.
Carpe Diem!
Ryan

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zKars
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby zKars » 09 Aug 2017 15:49

All I read was "Let's show everyone how smart we are and how dumb the masses are about springs and traction, and prove it using simplistic examples that leave out all the real world stuff that disproves our point".

Perhaps all that can be written about cars has been done so many time that finally they are desparately trying to come with some schlok to fill the pages.

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bertvorgon
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby bertvorgon » 09 Aug 2017 16:01

That's funny!

I could not agree more, again, the second article did not address the shock issue to balance out a spring package. Nor a discussion about WHAT are you doing with your car.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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RMS
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby RMS » 09 Aug 2017 16:25

its not only writers, it seams even manufactures have lost the balance between shock and spring. a guy in a SLK on the perimeter road didn't like being past by a datsun. he hit the old jump just past the bridge at about 110km in the slow lane. the front end absorbed the jump and the rear end was pitched a few feet into the air. sparks, bits of plastic showered my car and I saw both passenger and driver ejected into the soft top.
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

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bertvorgon
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby bertvorgon » 10 Aug 2017 07:01

That's even funnier! I have seen things like that before, cars get all weird when they go past their design parameters, which is a whole lot of no design. Is that the "jump" at the Patullo Bridge?

When you come off Highway #99 northbound, for the Westminster Hwy east, the sweeper has a wicked set of ripples and a dip in it. I love going off there fast in the morning in the G ( no brake lights) and watch the reaction of guys in their trendy cars almost lose the rear end.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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RMS
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby RMS » 10 Aug 2017 08:40

ya it was the jump at the patullo witch is sadly smoothed out. now those ford raptors they can jump ! old guy in a vw not so much ....thought he was going to bounce off the divider into me.

....there's ripples and a dip on that exit ? never felt them in any of the 510s
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

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bertvorgon
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby bertvorgon » 10 Aug 2017 08:58

HAH...Your just not going FAST enough......
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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icehouse
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby icehouse » 10 Aug 2017 19:14

RMS wrote:its not only writers, it seams even manufactures have lost the balance between shock and spring. a guy in a SLK on the perimeter road didn't like being past by a datsun. he hit the old jump just past the bridge at about 110km in the slow lane. the front end absorbed the jump and the rear end was pitched a few feet into the air. sparks, bits of plastic showered my car and I saw both passenger and driver ejected into the soft top.



Yep some guys don't like to be passed/don't like to be the slow one. Dude tried to pass me on a back road (I actually slowed down because I was worried it was going to go down that way hoping he would notice and slow down....) he lost it and took out a telephone pole! I stopped to make sure he was okay then drove him home. haha.
I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

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bertvorgon
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Re: Road & Track: why stiff springs = less grip

Postby bertvorgon » 11 Aug 2017 06:40

OH the stories we could tell.......
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer


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