Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Suspension, including wheel, tire and brake.
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obrut
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Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by obrut » 14 Dec 2017 11:32

I'm putting a 1972 510 back together and I'm replacing almost all of the suspension and brake components. Some of the stuff is missing and the rest is worn out. I've been reading and searching to figure out what I want to do. My goal for the car is a L18 or L20B with side drafts and a dogleg 5 speed for street/autox and maybe a track day here or there. The car will mostly be street driven for fun, a cruiser, weekend toy.

I've decided to run the 280zx struts with the wilwood calipers per the write up in the dime quarterly. I plan to just rebuild the rear and keep the drums.

What is the recommend master cylinder to run when using the wilwood dynalite calipers with drums in the rear? I know this is a lot of brakes for a mostly street car but I driven a car on the track that the brakes went away after 1.5 laps and that's not a great experience. I currently have 280zx struts, 4 lug 300zx hubs and 1 new wilwood caliper so most of the parts are collected. I do need a brake pad recommendation.

My 280zx strut have insert in them and they need to be replaced. I don't feel the need to go coil over but I am looking for a good front insert/shock and rear shock suggestion to run with stock 510 springs. I will eventually need to find sway bars, mine are missing so any suggestions would be great.

I'm missing the TC rods on both sides, should I upgrade to adjustable ones or not worth it with somewhat stock suspension? Where would I fine stock replacements?

I'm going to replace the tie rods, ball joints, idler etc with moog stuff. I'm going to replace the brake lines and clutch with braided DOT lines. I'm going to replace the rear drums (there missing anyway) and wheel cylinders with stock stuff. Any other suggestions on better or different parts to use?

Thanks for the help,
Tim
1972 4 door hopefully with a L20B and side drafts before to long

datzenmike
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by datzenmike » 14 Dec 2017 20:04

What's wrong with he zx calipers? Was good enough for stopping the much heavier 280zx turbo, it will be total overkill on a 500 pound lighter 510.

The 3/4" master may be a little small for the larger calipers and travel almost to the floor to move enough fluid. This will give them a mushy pedal. If you go to 13/16 or 7/8 the effort will increase and the pedal seem too hard. In this case a B210 brake booster will be worthwhile.

You do know that the 280zx spring won't work on a 510 and that the stock spring, or equivalent, must be used?

Adjustable TC are not worth it. What ever you do, use rubber for the bushings.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

Three B's Racing
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by Three B's Racing » 15 Dec 2017 04:53

Actually, the ZX springs will work. One of the guys "Vince" who attends the EastCoast 510 meet at Summit Point has stock ZX struts and springs. He had to remove metal around the entry of the strut tower but they fit. Only issue is any caster adjustment you may want to add is very limited. He's a good friend of Qwik510 and David has pics of that mod at the strut tower enty.
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obrut
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by obrut » 15 Dec 2017 05:37

I should add that one of the other reason to switch was to gain the 3/4" offset back. I have nice almost new panasport wheels that came with the car. When I bolted one onto the 280zx strut the tire was almost touching the strut tube. My zx calipers are in good shape but they do need new pistons and seals and I also did not want to run spacers in the front.

I've read the strut swap post a few time, I know I need cut the spring perch off the 510 strut and swap to the zx strut and use the stock springs.

Where can I buy new stock TC rods with bushings and hardware? I can't the rods, bushing and hardware for sale anywhere.

I read a few post and someone mentioned using sock zx stuff with some modifications. I wouldn't mind seeing whats involved to do this.

Thanks
1972 4 door hopefully with a L20B and side drafts before to long

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510wizard
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by 510wizard » 15 Dec 2017 07:31

Looking to the future, I wonder how long the 280zx calipers and rebuild kits are going to be available. I think that moving to a current made caliper is a good idea (wilwood, etc). For brake pads, my go to are Porterfield r4s, which are available for the wilwood.

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by funwithmonkeys » 16 Dec 2017 08:56

If you are already having to cut off the spring search and weld on a new one it would be just as easy to put on an off the shelf coilovers kit on the struts. It opens you up to almost any spring rate you want and makes it very easy to set your ride height.
Going with solid mounting or poly bushings will really sharpen up the feel of the car but it does make it louder. It is always a toss up. Which area do you want to focus the car more on. Personally I love the feel of my car with everything solid mounted. I have the adjustable TC bars from Futofab.com. but if you wanted to you could get the stock ones turned down on the end to allow more caster.
If your tire is not touching the strut tube then there is enough room. I am about 2-3mm from the tube and my tire has never touched it.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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RMS
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by RMS » 16 Dec 2017 10:16

if I was to do it again I would go with twin singles and a balance bar. more room for carbs and better brake balance no matter what is at the wheel ends.
if your 280 struts have the stock oil filled inserts I would re build them and let the spring rate determine the weight of oil. Qa1 adjustable shocks in the rear and rubber bushings to start. if you need stock tc's I can help. if the bump stop is set lower than stock I would mount the swaybar on stands and put it below the control arms, however a 15in or larger wheel will be needed. a nice comfy spring combo for the street would be dodge D50 front springs in the rear and nissan sentra fastback rears in the front with stock 510 hats on the 280 struts. or go with coil overs and weight jackers in the rear, 200 front 300 rear.
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

datzenmike
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by datzenmike » 16 Dec 2017 12:58

Three B's Racing wrote:Actually, the ZX springs will work. One of the guys "Vince" who attends the EastCoast 510 meet at Summit Point has stock ZX struts and springs. He had to remove metal around the entry of the strut tower but they fit. Only issue is any caster adjustment you may want to add is very limited. He's a good friend of Qwik510 and David has pics of that mod at the strut tower enty.
Can they be made to fit? Well with work and tools and skills not available to most everyone, I suppose so, but I stand by my statement that they don't fit. A better question would be should you do it? You won't have much in the strut tower for camber adjustment either. Certainly it would be easier to trim the lower spring perch off (hacksaw or angle grinder) add the 510 coil, top hat and perch (all readily available) and secure with split collars.


RMS wrote:
if your 280 struts have the stock oil filled inserts I would re build them and let the spring rate determine the weight of oil.


This is exactly what I did. I trimmed the stock spring for 150 lb/in spring rate and used 20W motorcycle fork oil. Cost $17.
Last edited by datzenmike on 16 Dec 2017 13:05, edited 1 time in total.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

obrut
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by obrut » 17 Dec 2017 07:09

Thanks for the replys everyone.

The plan for now is to use the 510 spring perch and springs on the 280zx strut with possibly upgrading to coils in the future if I need it.

My struts had gas inserts so no chance on cutting one coil and adding the 20w oil, I need a replacement insert.

The twin master setup looks cool but I think for now I just need a master that will work with the combo I want to run. B210 master?

I'm looking at the futofab TC rods because I can't find stock replacement TC rods for sale anywhere. My car did not have them when I bought it.
1972 4 door hopefully with a L20B and side drafts before to long

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by funwithmonkeys » 17 Dec 2017 08:52

RMS should be able you out with some stock ones.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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RMS
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by RMS » 17 Dec 2017 20:07

yup, I have a few matched sets with washers to choose from.

stock springs(89lb/in)~ will require rubber bushings with the floppy wallowy springs. I pinked off a 7/8th sway bar endlink hole wile running polly bushes and nissan comp springs(165?) in a week>100km. the dodge D50 86-88? front spring in the rear of a 510 is the best street spring and only lowers the car 1/2in from stock. the nissan sentra rear spring 88--92 123lb/in(fastback 133?) in the front of a 510 complements the d50 thats in the rear.
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

obrut
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Re: Suspension and brake questions, I searched

Post by obrut » 18 Dec 2017 14:07

RMS PM sent for TC rods.

I think I'm going to leave the springs for now. They look like they are in good shape and I have them. I'm updating stuff that I don't have or need to replace.

When I try and look up QA1 shocks they don't have a datsun nissan selection. What vehicle or part am I using for 510 rear and 280zx front insert?
1972 4 door hopefully with a L20B and side drafts before to long

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