Fred's 73 2dr 510

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Fred_L-P
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by Fred_L-P » 21 Apr 2017 19:07

Oh wow nice find. It's definitely not the same car, but quite similar indeed. Both from Quebec, Same colors, exactly the same roll cage and wheels...

Little update, I am finally ready to work on the car, starting to sort things out.
Everything I brought back with me is mixed up in many boxes.
Once this is done I will get started on the suspension and brake upgrades before anything else.

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andrew.lori
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by andrew.lori » 23 Apr 2017 19:15

Good find Fritz ... sure are similar. Wonder where it is now
1966 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A
1970 Datsun 510 KA24DE Street car
1970 Datsun 510 CASC Road Racer Sold)
1972 Datsun 510 SR Monster Sold it
1977 Datsun 200SX Sold :(
1973 Toyota Celica
1972 Triumph GT6 SCCA Vintage Race Car / Money Pit

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Fred_L-P
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by Fred_L-P » 29 May 2017 10:40

So... I didn't have much time to get started on the car because of major renovations in the house i need to get done first, but I did manage to start shopping. I bought a pair of 280zx front struts, T3 coilover weld on kit + camber plates and tranny mount.

I've also been looking for a KA/5 speed MT. I had a good deal but the seller backed out as I was about to go pick it up...

How much would you guys pay (cad$) for a 1995 KA24DE/5 speed MT that both need a complete rebuild? I found one for 150$ but not sure if I should get it. The guy told me the tranny is leaking, syncros are tired and engine is burning oil. I don't mind the engine rebuild, It's the transmission that worries me. I would just drop it at a shop to rebuild it, but considering I could grab an SR20DE (not T) for 1000-1500$ at a JDM in Montreal... I'm not sure the complete KA rebuild is worth it.

What do you guys think?

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DADZSUN
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by DADZSUN » 29 May 2017 11:18

I'm quite familiar with the KA transmission search because I was going through it last summer. My tranny shifts/synros are fine, but there's some kind of lash when coasting in gear that I figure means it's getting tired.

I haven't had much luck. I found one in Ottawa for a few hundred but it was worse than the one I already had (seller took it back thankfully). For a decent used one I'd pay $250-350 depending on supply. New rebuild is about $1000Cdn, or at least that was the price of parts & rebuild I was quoted.

Another option I considered is the 350/370z CD009 6 speed tranny with adapter plate and shifter relocator (too long in stock form) but that's close to $2K.

Did you try calling the various JDM import shops for an SR20 tranny (swap bell housing is all that's required I believe)? I see a few listed on kijiji. There's two in Montreal for $400 http://www.kijiji.ca/v-transmission/oue ... nFlag=true




Fritz
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

greenthumb
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by greenthumb » 29 May 2017 13:20

That 350z 6 speed is huuuuge. I don't believe that you can slip that one in as readily as a ka 5 speed

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icehouse
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by icehouse » 29 May 2017 13:58

My vote is SR20DE!! I've installed a few and have one in my daily driver. I'm sure I have over 3 hours of autoX laps on it plus daily driving for a few years and it still runs awesome. I also make sure to bang it off the rev limiter at least once a day. I've installed more KA's into 510's than I can count and wired even more. I've just had to many issues with KA's to see the benefit of getting one. 10+ years ago they were the go to swap. Me and frank would get them for free lots of times with low milage and slap them in a dime. Now they are overpriced and beat down.


Get this! From what I could find it's 197 to the wheels! and a 6 speed!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nissan-Silvia-A ... p~&vxp=mtr
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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Fred_L-P
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by Fred_L-P » 29 May 2017 18:13

Yeah, I've seen the Autech SR20DE 6 speed but its out of my price range. I was thinking of the regular SR20DE 5 speed. They usually sell for 1200$ around here in fairly good/running condition.

If I rebuild one of those beaten up KA + tranny I'm looking at a good 2000$. Which makes me lean towards a JDM SR20DE.

Icehouse, how harder are they to swap vs the KA? I know the SR20DET biggest issue is the turbo/manifold hitting the steering box.
Is the SR20DE exhaust manifold also hitting it? It's also hard to find info about it since everything that comes up are about turbo builds...

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JordanTr
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by JordanTr » 29 May 2017 22:44

Fred, having driven both my car (stock Ka24DE 3.7 LSD) and Jeff's car (NA SR20DE 3.9 rear IIRC), the KA is torqued and peppier feeling I think. Maybe I just drive my car harder than I drove his!! The SR felt quite Honda-esque to me without a turbo on it.

Jeff's point about the lack of plentiful KAs is very valid.
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)

Three B's Racing
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by Three B's Racing » 30 May 2017 07:25

JordanTr wrote:Fred, having driven both my car (stock Ka24DE 3.7 LSD) and Jeff's car (NA SR20DE 3.9 rear IIRC), the KA is torqued and peppier feeling I think. Maybe I just drive my car harder than I drove his!! The SR felt quite Honda-esque to me without a turbo on it.

Jeff's point about the lack of plentiful KAs is very valid.
Well which SR you comparing to S13 140hp or S14 165hp because the KA24DE sports what 160hp. I'm running a S14 na SR and I'd happly run any stock KA24DE, that would be fun. I've run a friends Celica with VG3.3 and happly car lenghted him. :arrow:
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
- John Lennon

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Fred_L-P
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by Fred_L-P » 19 Nov 2017 18:18

Time for an update!

I'm still working on the house but I've managed to spend some time on the 510.
Progress is a bit slower than I'd like, but I'm still getting stuff done.
The idea is to mock up/test fit and get everything ready before doing any body work so I don't have to cut, weld, drill holes, etc after the paint job is done.

So during the last 5 months I sorted out the front suspension/steering
I'll let the pictures do the talking

Ready to work!
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Before
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mint 82 280zx struts :lol:
I still dont get how i managed to find such a clean shell up here...
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Suspensions parts after removal
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The old LCA bushing sleeves were a pain... There was no way to take them out, even the hydraulic press wouldn't make them budge.
So I decided to carefully cut a slice of the sleeve with a hacksaw to break them loose and it worked.
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Cleaned/rewelded the crossmember before making it pretty. The previous welding job for the flip was disgusting.
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Everything ready to put it back together!
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In the meantime I also found a nice set of Nissan OEM Primera 15'' Wheels from a JDM shop in Montreal
They're straight and don't show any kind of damage. They just need a little cleanup. I might powder coat them if I end up using them.
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I turned the car around yesterday. I'll give the back end the same treatment this winter.
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I did not check what kind of diff is hiding there yet. It may have been upgraded in the past for the rally. If it's still an open diff I'll consider swapping it for a Subaru LSD.

Since I plan to daliy drive it during the summer, I'm not going to drop it crazy low considering the crappy road conditions in Quebec.
I don't know yet what springs are in there, but I already like how high the back end sits. I think the slightly bigger wheels and extra weight when reassembled will fill the gap nicely.

I did not restore the front ZX calipers yet. I'm still not sure if I will or if I upgrade to small aftermarket calipers since ZX ones are nowhere to be found. I will also convert the back to discs. Any suggestions for the setup?

Let's hope I can get all this done for late spring so I can get started on the engine/wiring during the summer! I decided to go SR20DE.

In the meantime I also changed job, but still related to cars.
I'm now a tooling engineer for Raufoss Automotive Components. We design/produce forged aluminum suspension arms for the automotive industry.
The best part is it's 5 minutes from home. No more traffic, it feels sooooooo goood.

Next time I'll try to update during the process with more pictures.

Cheers!

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Fred_L-P
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by Fred_L-P » 13 Jun 2018 20:17

Time for an update.

It's been almost 7 months since my last post.

So first of all, I have to say I failed to update my thread as I progress as I said I would try to do... :(
BUT, I'm right on schedule with my plan. 8)

It's going to be picture heavy.

I'll pick up exactly where I left off!
I finaly managed to trade in my 280zx caliper cores for rebuilt ones at a local parts store
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Now, I started to remove everything from the back
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It was obviously easier to drop the whole assembly and pull it out to take it appart.
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The subframe and mustache bar bushings were easy to push out.
On the other hand, the rlca bushings were a pain in the #@! so I used the same method (hacksaw) as my flca to take the sleeves out.
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I enlarged the exhaust hole to 3.75'' to make sure I have enough room for whatever plans I might have in the future.
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And fresh coats of POR15 after an acid bath
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The trailing arms got the same treatment before reassembling the hubs with new bearings, studs and flange nut.
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It turns out my 510 still had a stock open diff, so I got myself a nice Subaru R160 4.44 Suretrac LSD to take it's place.
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Since I do not plan on dropping the rear subframe again, I cleaned up the rear floor as best as I could with paint stripper and a grinder/wirebrush.
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And gave it 3 good coats of POR15
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With seamsealer
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I decided to stick with springs and shocks in the rear instead of coilovers for the moment.
I went with an 18'' long 500lbs eibach spring that I cut in half. Unfortunately they only make it in silver so it doesn't match the front red Eibach springs.
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Everything is now ready to go back in with poly bushings
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Almost done! Converted the rear to discs with maxima calipers.
The nuts on the wheel studs are only there to deal with my +40mm offset wheels to move the car around.
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And ready to get back on the ground!
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The only parts missing are the half shafts. I did not decide yet if I keep them of upgrade to CV axles.

Allright, now the exciting part. As I said I'm still on track with my plan, and in my previous post I wanted to start working on the engine by the summer.

I picked up an SR20DE with a 5 seed localy. It came out of a pretty crazy 620 build that is upgrading to a DET.
I dropped it into the 510 for the first time last Sunday with a couple of friends. Here it is!
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But there's more... I might've picked up a set of Gtir ITBs along the way :roll:
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I opted for the 620 motor mounts since It's going to be a pretty low power build.
I'm surprised at how well it fits. It's sitting pretty far back, but with plenty of room between the block and the firewall
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The oil pan sits perfectly leveled
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Right side (passenger) motor mount, no binding at all
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This is the only thing I don't like. The left side (driver) motor mount doesn't look as good.
Front to back is allright...
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But that feels wrong. Anyone got some advice on this?
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I don't have a picture, but I'm surprised the steering link doesn't hit the transmission bell housing. It's pretty damn close though, there's abount 1/8'' to 1/4'' of clearance.

Next steps are to mock up and fit everything I need to make the engine run before doing any kind of bodywork. I want a clean engine bay so I need to sort out the drilling, welding, filling that needs to be done before a fresh coat of paint.

I'm learning as I go, so if you guys have any suggestions, I'm all ears!

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bertvorgon
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by bertvorgon » 14 Jun 2018 06:38

Looks really nice Fred.

A word of warning and caution though...the factory REAR bump stops. Depending on how much we lower the rear on our 510's, coupled with rear spring rate and shock valving, on an extreme bump, it is possible to hit that bump stop. Under the right conditions that can cause a sudden and catastrophic loss of control. I know as I had a huge crash at Westwood race track,as we learned the 510's suspension issues.

In forensic determination we saw that I hit a huge bump in a corner, 80 MPH, thus blowing through the suspension travel and the rear instantly had NO travel left and was solid. This caused the car to INSTANTLY oversteer. We now, and I think most of us here on the coast, run NO rear bump stops. Again, depending on total travel available, we would get into coil bind should I/we go through all the travel. I have NEVER bottomed my rear suspension now and that is on some extreme high speed, bumpy, canyon carving.

Bare minimum I would suggest is take that bump stop out and cut 1/2" - 3/4" off it.

Some thoughts at any rate.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Fred_L-P
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by Fred_L-P » 14 Jun 2018 09:54

Thanks for the warning Keith, I guess I'll just take them out completely.
I don't think the rear sits too low, but there's no fuel tank or battery in there yet.

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Byron510
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by Byron510 » 18 Jun 2018 11:52

It's interesting to see this topic come up again. Keith has a very vivid and valid reason for bringing up the condition of suddenly running out of suspension travel as the outcome heavily effected him on the track - with a lesson to be learned attached.

However, I too came across the same issue a few weeks ago doing a nut and bolt check. The suspension had got quite dirty over the years, and an undercarriage wash and inspection hadn't taken place in a LOOOONNNNG time, even though I do regular nut and bolt checks. But I found clear evidence of the trailing arm coming in contact with the body. Note the lack of any bump stop in the stock area on the arm.
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I have photos here under todays date;

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=530&p=267233#p267233

Certainly I too have some work to do, but as noted in my build thread, there are options on the table.

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.

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Fred_L-P
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Re: Fred's 73 2dr 510

Post by Fred_L-P » 26 Jun 2018 10:17

Thanks Byron,

I guess I'll try to engineeer a bump stop that just high enough to prevent a contact with the body instead of completely removing it.

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