510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
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Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
We built a racecar back in the day (See Butters 68 page57 featured project) that had a tube frame inside the front frame rails, through the center of the car connecting to the rear subframe. Then a rear tube frame off that to the rear bumper. With a roll cage tying it all together.That car was super quick, and responded VERY well to weight jacking and small chassis adjustments (very sensitive).
The motor was probably around 125-130 hp.
It was a huge amount of work.
For what you are doing I wouldn't bother with it, just make sure the car is solid (fix the rust) do the sheet metal braces as described by others and do the doubler plate that Keith did on the rear control arms.
I built a 81 Malibu stock car a few years later with a full cage etc we hung a weight off a 10 foot piece of tubing to see how much it flexed.....
That was a full framed car it was an eye opener how bad it was. Had to do a complete re-design...
The little 510 uni body was a far far superior platform.
Hope that helps.
The motor was probably around 125-130 hp.
It was a huge amount of work.
For what you are doing I wouldn't bother with it, just make sure the car is solid (fix the rust) do the sheet metal braces as described by others and do the doubler plate that Keith did on the rear control arms.
I built a 81 Malibu stock car a few years later with a full cage etc we hung a weight off a 10 foot piece of tubing to see how much it flexed.....
That was a full framed car it was an eye opener how bad it was. Had to do a complete re-design...
The little 510 uni body was a far far superior platform.
Hope that helps.
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Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
Great input. Thanks guys.
Rob
Rob
- bertvorgon
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Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
Funny, I was looking at some pictures today, and these popped up. One of the best mods I did for steering/frame flex was to REALLY triangulate the steering box brace, not just some little plate to the body, with a small back up pieces.
With real race tires we did a test and watched the frame really start to twist at the box mounting area, so Andy and I came up with this setup.
As a heads up, the brace to the drivers toe board must accommodate the tallest tire you might run in terms of full steering lock. I have lost just a hair of left turn capability as when we did this, 23" tall tires x 15" were not the norm. No biggy in 99% of turning situations.
Bottom line it made a seat of the pants feel difference.
With real race tires we did a test and watched the frame really start to twist at the box mounting area, so Andy and I came up with this setup.
As a heads up, the brace to the drivers toe board must accommodate the tallest tire you might run in terms of full steering lock. I have lost just a hair of left turn capability as when we did this, 23" tall tires x 15" were not the norm. No biggy in 99% of turning situations.
Bottom line it made a seat of the pants feel difference.
- Attachments
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- upper point from top of steering box.JPG (130.44 KiB) Viewed 4099 times
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- toe board brace. my 15 inch tires just touch it at full lock.JPG (118.25 KiB) Viewed 4099 times
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- lower plate bolts to main steering box bolts. this makes frame rigid.JPG (132.58 KiB) Viewed 4099 times
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- drivers side brace for steering box.JPG (124.77 KiB) Viewed 4099 times
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- box top brace.JPG (119.97 KiB) Viewed 4099 times
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
Why didn't you guys just put a rack in it? I can see why the average dude doesn't, but you two! Cake!bertvorgon wrote: ↑10 Jan 2019 13:17 Funny, I was looking at some pictures today, and these popped up. One of the best mods I did for steering/frame flex was to REALLY triangulate the steering box brace, not just some little plate to the body, with a small back up pieces.
With real race tires we did a test and watched the frame really start to twist at the box mounting area, so Andy and I came up with this setup.
As a heads up, the brace to the drivers toe board must accommodate the tallest tire you might run in terms of full steering lock. I have lost just a hair of left turn capability as when we did this, 23" tall tires x 15" were not the norm. No biggy in 99% of turning situations.
Bottom line it made a seat of the pants feel difference.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam
- bertvorgon
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Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
Called clearance!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
clearance around your already built exhaust?
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam
- bertvorgon
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Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
Where would I put the rack.....
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- IMG_7978.JPG (124.8 KiB) Viewed 4046 times
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- IMG_7972.JPG (145.43 KiB) Viewed 4046 times
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
Just convert the motor to front sump. That's what we did on our L series racecar.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam
- bertvorgon
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Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
There is no way in hell I would do that now....plus, is not the anti-roll bar in the way?
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
Yeah I thought we were talking about back when your bad ass racecar? yeah wouldn't be any point now. You'd have to redo to many things.bertvorgon wrote: ↑11 Jan 2019 17:28 There is no way in hell I would do that now....plus, is not the anti-roll bar in the way?
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam
- bertvorgon
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Re: 510 chassis/subframe upgrades to compensate for added hp
When you look back at the time period when I built the car, 1978, our steering boxes were in excellent shape, and, there was not the selection of racks out there that you can choose from now. Most everything was still steering boxes.
It was not till we all started running the bigger and stickier slicks that that we all at almost the same time, had the dreaded steering wheel shake, which we determined was the worn worm and sector gear.
We all upgraded to the HL510 box, put BRAND NEW worm and sectors in and on we we went. Mine is still there today but I must admit, at 27 years since we did that, it is getting that "on center" wear issue, still passable, but thankfully I'm not using full on race tires.
It was not till we all started running the bigger and stickier slicks that that we all at almost the same time, had the dreaded steering wheel shake, which we determined was the worn worm and sector gear.
We all upgraded to the HL510 box, put BRAND NEW worm and sectors in and on we we went. Mine is still there today but I must admit, at 27 years since we did that, it is getting that "on center" wear issue, still passable, but thankfully I'm not using full on race tires.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer