Center Mounted Parking Brake

Suspension, including wheel, tire and brake.
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defdes
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by defdes » 30 May 2019 08:10

JasonLee wrote:
29 May 2019 13:24
defdes wrote:
28 May 2019 07:11
JasonLee wrote:
27 May 2019 20:10
Besides, I never liked that the stock e-brake handle is out of reach and essentially useless when wearing 4 point harnesses
This is my main issue. With the KA box mounted back so far, if I end up with a vertical brake handle, it will have to go in front of the gear shift.


This is similar to the e-brake handle I ended up going with. I replaced the hydraulic cylinder with a Wilwood girling style unit with integral reservoir. The handle can be set up in the horizontal position as well as the vertical position by simple detaching the handle and reattaching it flipped over. I chose to install it in the horizontal position, and placed it between the seats and behind the shifter handle just like any other ordinary centre mounted e-brake handle. The mechanical force that can be applied in this position is not as great as when the handle is vertical and ahead of the driver, so for a drift car application a forward mounted vertical handle would be preferred. But for most other applications, horizontal mount and between the seats would likely be the preferred way to go. I am happy with my setup and like the pure function look of it. Oh, and the locking bar that holds the e-brake in the on position can be flipped aside so the handle can be pulled and quickly released without having the worry about the brake remaining on if that is your preference.

https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Hydr ... p_pl_dp_12
Do you have pics of your install?
Thanks for those of the Lokar too Devon, very helpful.

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Fred_L-P
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by Fred_L-P » 30 May 2019 08:58

demo243 wrote:
29 May 2019 13:56
I went with a Lokar handle and their universal cable set up when I got rid of my t-handle. The set up was pretty easy to install and looks good. Its a bit tight now that I have a KA in there, but still works fine. I ran it with stock drums for a little bit and now with my maxima disc conversion - I ran the calipers on the underside of the arms to keep the cables coming through the stock location/stops on the arms - I also added some barrel nuts on the cables to keep them from pulling through the mounts on the calipers.

Also at that time I ditched the T-Handle e-brake and went with a lokar set up run to the stock points on the X-member and rear arms

Underside of the cable routing- and handle

ImageIMG_4865 by Devon Mitchell, on Flickr

ImageIMG_7710 by Devon Mitchell, on Flickr
Do you have the exact cable kit that fits the maxima calipers? There are many ''universal kits''.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ ... /overview/

It might not be the cheapest solution, but maybe the easiest. I already have a top mounted hand brake handle that came with my shell. I have no idea what its from and it works, but I have no cables and I'm pretty sure the lokar cable is gonna work with it.

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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by 510rob » 30 May 2019 10:57

JasonLee wrote:
29 May 2019 13:14
I could swear that when I read this section last year that it referred to a separate independent system for the e-brake. That said, section 6.05 states exactly that, but only applies to busses, trucks and truck tractors. So I suppose that cars in BC are allowed to run a hydraulic e-brake grafted into the main hydraulic system.
I tend to agree that a previous version of the MVA Regs used to designate a separate and wholly independent subsystem for the e-brake that was notably required to be mechanical in nature, or at least independent of the existing main hydraulic braking system.

The way it is written now can be read a few ways, but the linchpin is the following phrasing from Sec. 5.03 (1) ---> "[a]... system or a parking brake which... will alone stop and hold stationary the motor vehicle"

As a vague minimum, if you could somehow demonstrate that a stick in the spokes of the wheels could stop and hold stationary the vehicle, then there you go, but that stick ALONE must be the component.

ALONE is the key.

Alone is wholly independent of the remaining brake system? But OEM systems share brake linings and friction surfaces, so there is leeway in interpretation in that regard...

Fundamentally, I think it has been reworded to focus on the spirit of the intent of the law, not on mechanical specifics. If you contrive a system that, in an emergency situation, could successfully and safely stop the vehicle, without endangering other persons, then that is what they are after. To that extent, I think that an extra hydraulic master cylinder tee'd into the main system fails to meet the criteria of "ALONE", at least in spirit; if one were to have a hypothetical hydraulic failure, then one could no longer stop the vehicle, in which case one might wish that their wizardry in creating an emergency backup system had included consideration of it's ability to act ALONE from the main system that had failed...

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JasonLee
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by JasonLee » 30 May 2019 11:24

defdes wrote:
30 May 2019 08:10
JasonLee wrote:
29 May 2019 13:24
defdes wrote:
28 May 2019 07:11

This is my main issue. With the KA box mounted back so far, if I end up with a vertical brake handle, it will have to go in front of the gear shift.


This is similar to the e-brake handle I ended up going with. I replaced the hydraulic cylinder with a Wilwood girling style unit with integral reservoir. The handle can be set up in the horizontal position as well as the vertical position by simple detaching the handle and reattaching it flipped over. I chose to install it in the horizontal position, and placed it between the seats and behind the shifter handle just like any other ordinary centre mounted e-brake handle. The mechanical force that can be applied in this position is not as great as when the handle is vertical and ahead of the driver, so for a drift car application a forward mounted vertical handle would be preferred. But for most other applications, horizontal mount and between the seats would likely be the preferred way to go. I am happy with my setup and like the pure function look of it. Oh, and the locking bar that holds the e-brake in the on position can be flipped aside so the handle can be pulled and quickly released without having the worry about the brake remaining on if that is your preference.

https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Hydr ... p_pl_dp_12
Do you have pics of your install?
Thanks for those of the Lokar too Devon, very helpful.

Here are some pictures of my install. I positioned the handle assembly so that the MC was tucked up as close to the back seat as I could get without touching. I drilled and tapped the MC to accommodate a banjo fitting because I think that they look cool, and it ultimately required less plumbing to get the fitting pointed in the direction I wanted. The flex line (custom built to the exact length I wanted) goes through the bulkhead under the rear seat and I bent lines to create a mirror image of the stock rear brake lines. I even bend the line over the differential to follow the path of the stock lines, so the install looks somewhat "factory" under the car. I am very happy with the finished result, and the added redundancy and peace of mind makes up for the small amount of additional un-sprung weight added to the car.
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Jason

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JasonLee
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by JasonLee » 30 May 2019 11:48

510rob wrote:
30 May 2019 10:57
JasonLee wrote:
29 May 2019 13:14
I could swear that when I read this section last year that it referred to a separate independent system for the e-brake. That said, section 6.05 states exactly that, but only applies to busses, trucks and truck tractors. So I suppose that cars in BC are allowed to run a hydraulic e-brake grafted into the main hydraulic system.
I tend to agree that a previous version of the MVA Regs used to designate a separate and wholly independent subsystem for the e-brake that was notably required to be mechanical in nature, or at least independent of the existing main hydraulic braking system.

The way it is written now can be read a few ways, but the linchpin is the following phrasing from Sec. 5.03 (1) ---> "[a]... system or a parking brake which... will alone stop and hold stationary the motor vehicle"

As a vague minimum, if you could somehow demonstrate that a stick in the spokes of the wheels could stop and hold stationary the vehicle, then there you go, but that stick ALONE must be the component.

ALONE is the key.

Alone is wholly independent of the remaining brake system? But OEM systems share brake linings and friction surfaces, so there is leeway in interpretation in that regard...

Fundamentally, I think it has been reworded to focus on the spirit of the intent of the law, not on mechanical specifics. If you contrive a system that, in an emergency situation, could successfully and safely stop the vehicle, without endangering other persons, then that is what they are after. To that extent, I think that an extra hydraulic master cylinder tee'd into the main system fails to meet the criteria of "ALONE", at least in spirit; if one were to have a hypothetical hydraulic failure, then one could no longer stop the vehicle, in which case one might wish that their wizardry in creating an emergency backup system had included consideration of it's ability to act ALONE from the main system that had failed...

Thank you for that, as I thought I was losing my mind for a minute there. And nice job digging into the subtleties of the wording found in the most recent version of MVA Regs. When in doubt, assume that any ambiguity in the wording will be used to the benefit the insurance corp and not the car owner in the event of a catastrophic failure situation that causes harm to person or property. I agree that there is more to the word "alone", and why it was deliberately used in this recent amendment, than us non-legal types might appreciate.

When I went through the exercise of building my e-brake system, and incurring the cost and time of doing it, I tried to remind myself of how the car was originally equipped when it was approved as road-worthy by the powers that be. It came with a separate and independent e-brake system, and in the case of these cars, was a cable operated system. As discussed earlier, the stock handle location is not reachable for those that choose to use a race harness system, and is therefore limited to being a parking brake at best. The decision to switch to a hydraulic e-brake enabled me to locate the handle where I wanted, but it was important to me to ensure that the original design redundancy was maintained. Both from a legal standpoint as well as a safety one. The last thing I want is to be in court defending my decision to re-engineer one of the most critical safety features of the car without having an engineering degree and without the express written approval of the regulators that it was ok to remove the redundancy that the car originally came with. Those of you that are going the route of using a centre mounted handle and cable system are also maintaining this redundancy. My 2 cents worth is that if you are going to go the hydraulic route, think twice about taking the short cut of splicing into the existing rear hydraulic line. Think about this. If the cheap made-in-china MC that comes with most of these e-brake handles were to fail, you would lose the entire rear braking system of your car if it was merely spliced in and not part of its own independent system. Insurance companies are famous for handing you an umbrella when it is sunny, and taking it away when it is raining. Just sayin.
Jason

demo243
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by demo243 » 30 May 2019 12:10

Fred_L-P wrote:
30 May 2019 08:58
Do you have the exact cable kit that fits the maxima calipers? There are many ''universal kits''.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ ... /overview/

It might not be the cheapest solution, but maybe the easiest. I already have a top mounted hand brake handle that came with my shell. I have no idea what its from and it works, but I have no cables and I'm pretty sure the lokar cable is gonna work with it.
That cable that you linked is the one I used when I installed my Lokar Handle just looked back in my order confirmations - Summit Part # 625-EC-80FU - Plenty of length for pretty much any set up.

I used this handle with some washers under the brackets to space the handle up high enough for the lower mechanism to clear my drive shaft (I have a 3" aluminum driveshaft in my current set up)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-xehb7000f

As mentioned earlier the little metal ball ends at the end of the cable are just small enough that when yanked really hard they can flex the maxima caliper cable mount and slip through. I went to the local hardware store and found some barrel nuts to slip over the cable before installing it. The nuts sit nicely in the maxima caliper cable pulls and make it impossible for the cable to slip through.
'71 4 Door - Street/AutoX/Track Day Romper - NOW powered by a Carb'ed KA24DE

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Fred_L-P
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by Fred_L-P » 30 May 2019 12:42

JasonLee wrote:
30 May 2019 11:48
Insurance companies are famous for handing you an umbrella when it is sunny, and taking it away when it is raining. Just sayin.
Amen to that

demo243 wrote:
30 May 2019 12:10
That cable that you linked is the one I used when I installed my Lokar Handle just looked back in my order confirmations - Summit Part # 625-EC-80FU - Plenty of length for pretty much any set up.

I used this handle with some washers under the brackets to space the handle up high enough for the lower mechanism to clear my drive shaft (I have a 3" aluminum driveshaft in my current set up)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-xehb7000f

As mentioned earlier the little metal ball ends at the end of the cable are just small enough that when yanked really hard they can flex the maxima caliper cable mount and slip through. I went to the local hardware store and found some barrel nuts to slip over the cable before installing it. The nuts sit nicely in the maxima caliper cable pulls and make it impossible for the cable to slip through.
Thank you, now I get what you did with the barrel nuts. I'll go that route!

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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by Duncan » 05 Jun 2019 07:55

I used a Sunbeam Alpine (or Tiger) handle mounted between the seat and rocker panel. It can be mounted in a LHD or RHD car.

I had a simple cable made up for about $30 usd that works great. I did it because I hated the big, clunky handbrake assembly in my wagon. An addition benefit is that it eliminated the clunky pulley system for the cable in the wagon. I'm not familiar with the sedan setup as the only 510 I've owned is a wagon.

Image

iceman510
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by iceman510 » 05 Jun 2019 12:12

Duncan wrote:
05 Jun 2019 07:55
I used a Sunbeam Alpine (or Tiger) handle mounted between the seat and rocker panel. It can be mounted in a LHD or RHD car.

I had a simple cable made up for about $30 usd that works great. I did it because I hated the big, clunky handbrake assembly in my wagon. An addition benefit is that it eliminated the clunky pulley system for the cable in the wagon. I'm not familiar with the sedan setup as the only 510 I've owned is a wagon.

Image
BMW seats?

Duncan
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by Duncan » 05 Jun 2019 20:12

Yes. 3 Series BMW. I think they them E46's. They were really hard to find as most of them were electric. These are manual. Fairly complicated to install as well. They are really comfortable and don't look out of place in the car. Backseat was upholstered to match.

iceman510
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by iceman510 » 06 Jun 2019 06:25

From just that small slice of the seat image, it looks similar to the set I pulled from a 92 3 -series last fall. They are fully manual as well with the three levers. Brackets and sliders seem tall, so I will have to decide how to handle the install. I have read comments before about needing to mount them to the floor and not use the 510 risers.

Any pictures or advice on how best to do this certainly appreciated Duncan.

Duncan
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by Duncan » 06 Jun 2019 14:24

I'll send a PM. Don't want to hijack this thread any more...

iceman510
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Re: Center Mounted Parking Brake

Post by iceman510 » 07 Jun 2019 17:18

Agreed, and sorry OP.

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