Brad's '69 project
-
Gensaiken1
- Posts: 1165
- Joined: 21 Oct 2004 22:16
- Location: Ashland, Oregon USA
You know, I've never gone through your thread before - nice work!
I'll assume that you're either a machinist, or have access to a shop and the people to run it. I see lots of nicely engineered and machined/fabricated stuff in your gallery.
On the MR2 rack that you are using, how does the center to center measurement (from the center of one socket installed on the end of the rack to the other side) compare with the distance between the mounting holes on the stock center link?
I crawled under my car earlier this year, and just stared at the front suspension lay out for a while. What I did notice (or what I’d not noticed before) is that the is a strait line, starting at the TC mount at the front, intersecting the LCA pivot point and continues right through the tie rod/center link point with the wheels pointed strait ahead. This line is not parallel to the center line of the car – starting from the front of the car, this line points downward and to the center of the car at about a 5 degree angle. I thought about this for a while, but it would appear that this whole set up moves around that pivot line, and when you think about it, this geometry needs to be retained – if you have suspension travel! Then again if your car is as stiff as mine, not much will move and it’s all just a moog point! Now having said this, there are a couple other MR2 racks in use out there...
This subject (rack installation) really intrigues me as I also want to do the same. I watch with baited interest, and will one day be walking this path (I hope one day soon!).
Byron
BTW - Nice granite plate!! And vernier height gauge: that's a very seriously nice, and expensive toy! I made a height gauge in my apprentice trades school days many years ago and it serves me well, but there are no graduations on it.
And thanks for posting all your work, a very nice gallery to go through – cool to see that you involve your sons. I hope to do the same with my daughter. She’ll have her girly toys, but I hope she’ll also come out and get her hands dirty on dads car. She just turned one last month, and this past week got her first set of Lego block – got to feed that engineering side of the mind!
I'll assume that you're either a machinist, or have access to a shop and the people to run it. I see lots of nicely engineered and machined/fabricated stuff in your gallery.
On the MR2 rack that you are using, how does the center to center measurement (from the center of one socket installed on the end of the rack to the other side) compare with the distance between the mounting holes on the stock center link?
I crawled under my car earlier this year, and just stared at the front suspension lay out for a while. What I did notice (or what I’d not noticed before) is that the is a strait line, starting at the TC mount at the front, intersecting the LCA pivot point and continues right through the tie rod/center link point with the wheels pointed strait ahead. This line is not parallel to the center line of the car – starting from the front of the car, this line points downward and to the center of the car at about a 5 degree angle. I thought about this for a while, but it would appear that this whole set up moves around that pivot line, and when you think about it, this geometry needs to be retained – if you have suspension travel! Then again if your car is as stiff as mine, not much will move and it’s all just a moog point! Now having said this, there are a couple other MR2 racks in use out there...
This subject (rack installation) really intrigues me as I also want to do the same. I watch with baited interest, and will one day be walking this path (I hope one day soon!).
Byron
BTW - Nice granite plate!! And vernier height gauge: that's a very seriously nice, and expensive toy! I made a height gauge in my apprentice trades school days many years ago and it serves me well, but there are no graduations on it.
And thanks for posting all your work, a very nice gallery to go through – cool to see that you involve your sons. I hope to do the same with my daughter. She’ll have her girly toys, but I hope she’ll also come out and get her hands dirty on dads car. She just turned one last month, and this past week got her first set of Lego block – got to feed that engineering side of the mind!
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.
because the opposite never works.
A compliment from you is much appreciated, really. I am in now way a machinist. I know enough about metalworking to hold in high regard that title, and to understand how far I am from it. I'm a manufacturing engineer for an auto supplier, so I'm around machining quite a bit, but I specialize more in automation. We have a nice maintenance shop, with a CNC mill and CNC lathe, that I am trying to slowly learn how to use, and a plant manager that's a car guy and doesn't mind my spending lots of time back there. There's also a local automation shop that I work with through work, that is helping me with some of the difficult bits.
I used the MR2 inner tie rod ends to try to keep the effective width of the rack close to the original width of the inner tie rod ends. I don't have the measurements here, sorry. I'm off to Detroit tonight, but I'll hopefuly get to work on the rack mount a little more this weekend.
I'm really curious about the steering ratio, and how I will like the ratio of the MR2 rack with the 510 geometry. Quaife makes a replacement set of R&P units for the MR2 housing that has a quicker ratio. That's my plan B if the steering is not quick enough. I'd like to calculate the difference, does anyone know the ratio of the stock 510 box?
I used the MR2 inner tie rod ends to try to keep the effective width of the rack close to the original width of the inner tie rod ends. I don't have the measurements here, sorry. I'm off to Detroit tonight, but I'll hopefuly get to work on the rack mount a little more this weekend.
I'm really curious about the steering ratio, and how I will like the ratio of the MR2 rack with the 510 geometry. Quaife makes a replacement set of R&P units for the MR2 housing that has a quicker ratio. That's my plan B if the steering is not quick enough. I'd like to calculate the difference, does anyone know the ratio of the stock 510 box?
Brad,
When you bought your Ron Davis rad, where did you get the dimensions before purchasing? Or did you have previous knowledge that a certain P/N would fit?
I'm just trying to size a new rad for my future turbo project, and I see that Ron has many, many applications. But I could not find any sizes on his site.
And a general question: is there a basic calculation for what size of a rad you would need for a given HP? Initially I doubt that I’ll be much over 200HP at the crank, but I should be prepared for 250+ incase I someday go with a wilder motor.
Byron
When you bought your Ron Davis rad, where did you get the dimensions before purchasing? Or did you have previous knowledge that a certain P/N would fit?
I'm just trying to size a new rad for my future turbo project, and I see that Ron has many, many applications. But I could not find any sizes on his site.
And a general question: is there a basic calculation for what size of a rad you would need for a given HP? Initially I doubt that I’ll be much over 200HP at the crank, but I should be prepared for 250+ incase I someday go with a wilder motor.
Byron
From this page...
http://www.rondavisradiators.com/Stock% ... iators.htm
I determined that I needed Chevy-style connection locations, and that the largest radiator that I could reasonably fit was their 22163 (22"wide, 16"tall, 3"thick). There are calculations out there, but I didn't use them in this decision. With the intercooler in front, I knew that I needed all the cooling that I could get, so I just ordered the largest I could fit. I'll use water wetter, and hope for the best. If I need more cooling, I'll start with ducting and fans. I've also been reading about the Evans NPG+ waterless coolant lately. Interesting concept.
I had to leave room for my intercooler piping, but without that, you could go wider if you want to widen the opening in the headlight panel. The application guy that I talked to there was very helpful, I'm sure he can talk to you about sizing as well.
http://www.rondavisradiators.com/Stock% ... iators.htm
I determined that I needed Chevy-style connection locations, and that the largest radiator that I could reasonably fit was their 22163 (22"wide, 16"tall, 3"thick). There are calculations out there, but I didn't use them in this decision. With the intercooler in front, I knew that I needed all the cooling that I could get, so I just ordered the largest I could fit. I'll use water wetter, and hope for the best. If I need more cooling, I'll start with ducting and fans. I've also been reading about the Evans NPG+ waterless coolant lately. Interesting concept.
I had to leave room for my intercooler piping, but without that, you could go wider if you want to widen the opening in the headlight panel. The application guy that I talked to there was very helpful, I'm sure he can talk to you about sizing as well.
So, I'm not sure why I couldn't figure this out by looking at your post Brad...
PN 22163 = 22X16X3.... sizes are right there in the part number!
Sometimes I feel dense. Anyways, the site also list other letters/numbers that follow that include D for dual pass, -2 for two fans ect. It's all there on the Ron Davis site, I just missed it some how! But thanks for getting back to me.
Byron
PN 22163 = 22X16X3.... sizes are right there in the part number!
Sometimes I feel dense. Anyways, the site also list other letters/numbers that follow that include D for dual pass, -2 for two fans ect. It's all there on the Ron Davis site, I just missed it some how! But thanks for getting back to me.
Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.
because the opposite never works.
I've made some progress since the last update. The MR2 rack & pinion mount is completed, and the unit is installed. I also incorporated a brace for the outside of the LCA bolt to place it in double shear. The assembly is in the car, and everything seems to work. I have to shorten the tie rods because my estimations were a little long (on purpose, it's easier to take away metal than to add, right). I also made the steering linkage which went about as planned. The big news is that or the first time in about four years I sat the car on it's own four wheels. Tuesday morning Norman and I raised the body, removed the roll-around dolly, and lowered the 510 back onto terra firma. The bigest shock to me was how tiny the car looked. It looks like a toy car. After seeing it up on the dolly for so long, I had lost the sense of how really small it is. I love it. It's on the trailer now being delivered back to the paint shop. It would seem that they didn't primer the engine bay and the paint has no adhesion. I've added pictures of the car on the trailer to my photo gallery.
The motor went back in Sunday night. The MR2 rack is in and the steering linkage is connected. The turbo clears the R&P just fine using the stock bottom-mount manifold, but I'm a little concerned about the available space for the exhaust downpipe. There is not much room above the steering shaft, so this may need a little adjustment. I added photos in my gallery of this, and the crossmember attachment reinforcement, and the LCA pivot bolt brace. Here's another link to the gallery...
http://www.the510realm.com/index.php?se ... _album.php
http://www.the510realm.com/index.php?se ... _album.php
- Attachments
-
-
zootowndime
- Posts: 921
- Joined: 12 Oct 2005 19:08
- Location: Missoula, MT
