L Series Engine Parts available today - Rockers, Pistons and more...

[Byron510]

I'm asking for some input here on the overhaul of a couple of LZ 2.2's with current information and availability.
I have both an S and E block ready for overhaul. Both need a re-bore, one due to rust the other due to wear.
It's been 15 years since I've built a motor from scratch. And although there is good information out there, like the FB group Church of L, I'm afraid FB like other sites just does not have a search engine that's worth beans, and these good old forums are still the best way to keep information - or search it. Finding infor on Rocker Arms this week has not been a very fruitful use of what little time I have.
If we could keep this discussion clean and informative - and Jeff I'll be waiting for your "Why are you still playing with that Old L Series Junk" jabs

Most of my old formula still seems to be available;

FelPro gaskets
Clevite CB966A4 A Series Rod Bearings (Aluminum Backed - P series NLA)
Clevite MS2042P P Series Main Bearings
Cloyes 94136S Timing chain set
Melling M111 oil pump

The cam will be local grind, likely Shadbolt or Colt. And I will be using a Nissan core camshaft, avoiding the CWC aftermarket new blank as I have hear for years there is a materiel problem with these for some time.

Rod bearings - I guess the metal backed parts have gone the way of the DoDo bird, but what can you do...

The questions is; Piston Brand and Rocker arm / lash pad sources

Pistons;
I see Rock Auto carries the ITM brand - RY6116 in S, .020, .030 and .040"
Does anyone have any experience with the quality of these? Are the rings that come with them worth anything? Are there other piston brands (aside from custom JE or others) that are worth considering?
In the past I have used Hastings Rings, I see they are still in production in STD, .25, .5,.75,1.0,1.5 mm overbore sizes - 9194S (010,020,030 ect)

Rockers;
Locally I can get the OEM rockers from Nissan - at $78 each... that's nearly $700 for the set.
I see only ITM available aftermarket. They appear to be the brazed lash pad type, at $10 each. however I have had some say in recent years that the material is substandard, and they will wear prematurely.

Lash Pads;
As i look through my selection of lash pads, some don't look all that good anymore - guess I'm getting to the bottom of the barrel.
Do you guys have a source for lash pads in the full range of thicknesses? I would think I'd be needing ones in the .180-.220" range, likely .190-.210

Water Pumps;
Since I'm asking, what's available today that's worth using? Obviously we still stay away from the stamped metal impeller types, so what brands have the cast impeller still available new? And staying away from "recon" units.

Any current input from those actually building engines recently would be great.

Thanks for your help guys.

Byron

[datzenmike]

Wear of cam and rockers is likely the oil industry's reduction of ZDDP in their formula. I run Shell Rotella T4 in 15w40 but they do have 10w30 now. This is a 'light' diesel oil that is exempt from this reduction. L engines won't run on 400-550 PPM ZDDP when they were designed in the 60s to run on 1,000 top 1,200PPM. This is insidious slow accumulation of wear that grinds our precious engines to scrap.



Never throw away rockers and grab any you do find. In fair shape you can recondition them with wet emery paper on a sheet of glass.

[bertvorgon]

It is getting scary as to the lack of stuff now for my motor too, hope the damn thing keeps running for a few more years, this one has been going for 19 years now, which with an average of "engine running time" is some 460+ hours, of which some has been some hard use. Same with my transmission.

I have seen Andy do what Mike has suggested.

[Danthewire]

Lash Pads- The Z store-800-633-6331

[MikeY]

I have a set of rockers I had reconditioned. Not sure where it was done. A place in Washington or Oregon I believe. Any reason to suspect these. after chatting with Byron a few days ago I came home and went through a can of used. Only 4 of over 20 looked like very little wear and a nice shiny wipe. I also have a 2.3 build in the planing stages. I was going to use new Nissan valve springs. Never had a lash pads pop out of my current build. 190 pads. But now I wonder should I get isky springs and retainers.

[zKars]

A favorite lash pad supplier in Auzzie land. $AUD=~$CAD, and shipping was cheap and quick.

http://www.precisionshims.com.au/products/slotted

[Byron510]

Thanks for the input guys.

The link for the lash pads is great, I was not aware anyone made lash pads with the recess in the bottom to match the OEM units. Good to know the option is there as I have always used the flat bottom variety.

I am aware of the issue regarding rocker wear. Mike, your input on the change of oils has been discussed for years on forums as a possible reason for wear. Admittedly this is a PITA. I too have been using Rotella T4. This is a good topic, and I’ll share my experiences in another thread. But we’re getting a bit off topic.

I need to procure parts for this build, and I was hoping that some of you had tried or utilized the ITM rocker arms, and I was hoping for some feed back as they seem to be the only source outside of the Nissan ones - which are staggeringly expensive.
Also, back to the original post, piston supply - again ITM; is there an issue with quality here that I should be aware of?

Thanks guys, I look forward to your input.

Byron

[MikeY]

The problem I had when looking at the rockauto ITM pistons was the lack of specs. You only have the picture to determine dish volume. And no pin height. The replacement 2.2 pistons show a cr of only 8.5:1. So quality is not the problem for those. The ka2.4 pistons look like a smaller dish so would up the Cr. But again you almost have to buy a set to get any accurate specs. Good luck. I'm assuming the advantage of using 2.2 oversized is you still have room to go 2.3 down the road. I've never asked Andy if there is meat in the sleeves to oversize a 2.4 ka piston in the 2.2 block. With how rare a 2.2s block is, once and done, has some drawbacks.

[cartel]

i have a set of NOS nissan rocker arms -- only been on the shelf for 20 years ..
personally i always thought fel pro gaskets werent good--

always a Nissan head gasket - and rear main seal
and the front seal is cheap and the paper gaskets -i think i have all that on the wall as well -

[Byron510]

Has anyone used the ITM rockers?

If so what cam and springs did you run?

And if you know, what oil did you use, and did you utilize a break in oil?

Lots of questions that are I d of specific, it it’s all part of this decision making process.

Thanks guys.

[datzenmike]

There were 2 Z22 piston and rod combinations. The early ones include all the 720 z22s and the first 6 months in the S110 200sx with the Z22E (long rod) engine. You want the early Z22 rods or L20B rods if you want to later make a 2.3

The early pin height is 35.5mm and the dish is 9.32cc for an 8.32 compression.

KA24E pistons have the same pin height as the Z24 at 34mm but the dish is 2.8cc and 15cc for the Z24

A 2.3 made with KA24E pistons and an open chamber L head has a 9.78 compression, with a Z24 piston 8.4

I have a Z22 block bored to 87mm and that's a mere0.040" or 1mm removed all the way around.

[Hoppenj]

I just finished an LZ2.2 , I used a COMP cam witch was the CWC casting , ITM rockers and ISKY springs(street version) I used Brad Penn 30wt break-in oil left out the inner springs for run in and followed all the normal break in procedures. The cam and rockers failed at about the 60 mile mark and lots of tuning in the garage I can't really say whom is to blame as all the rockers and all the lobes are damaged. oil pressure was/is great, plenty of flow out of all the cam lobes and the rocker geometry was centered. I'm now running an old used L20 cam and rockers with no troubles, I'm having an original cam reground to spec as well as a set of original rockers, We'll see what happens. As for ITM pistons i've installed a bunch of them in various European engines with Zero failures and would have used them if mine had needed to be replaced.

[datzenmike]

And if you know, what oil did you use, and did you utilize a break in oil?

Byron, I'm of the opinion that there is no need for a 'break in' with our cams. That's a carry over from shows on TV that build hot V8s and they all rev to 3K for 20 min for the 'break in'. However this is only because V8s and probably V6s and perhaps in ALL push rod engines the cam is lubricated by splash oiling or the oil thrown off the rods. L series have an oil gallery in the cam and is self lubricated so no break in required.

However to be safe use a brush on cam and lifter lube high in ZDDP and for future protection of the rocker and lobe surfaces, run a oil with ZDDP levels above 1,000 PPM like Rotella T4 (I've heard it's 1,200 MMP)

[Byron510]

Hi Mike,

I am of the mi d that higher zinc is needed.
And the costs on OEM rockers are through the roof! However I’m signing to think it’s a necessary key component in building a reliable engine with larger lift.

And what if your building a stock or mild cammed engine using stock springs? Can the ITM rockers - with the same treatment and care with zinc lube and followed with the highest zinc oil - can this also work. This is my question.

However it’s one I think I’ll need to go out on a limb and find out myself.

Safe road - pay the $$$ and go OEM. Great very well and maybe you’ll be ok.
Will the ITMs work in a stock motor - not quantifiable

What of reground rockers?
I can think of so many ways this can go wrong from a geometry point of view... but can we trust the input of those that have tried - only because we need to know exactly how they were treated at break in or in the first few miles. Failed or not.

In my case, I ate one cam lobe in 30 hours. Was that damage incurred when I was setting up the engine? Did then initial damage to either the cam lobe or to the rocker take place when I was setting up the wipe pattern?
Knowing that the clearance was correct and that the wipe pattern was good, what else could’ve wiped out that lobe?
I have been told that the cam was improperly set up, but what was not proper? Certainly the lash was identical between all eight rockers and lobes, the wipe pattern was centered and identical, the lash pad didn’t move - so what went wrong?
What makes me think it wasn’t oil is that it only happened to one lobe/rocker. If it was truly an oil based failure, all lobes should have shown the same wear. The cam is certainly the same material all the way across. One can presume the rockers were as well - it that is only a presumption.

I have more questions than answers, and that bothers me.

Byron.

[cartel]

while i havent build a L series in a while- we had far more success with "seasoned" used rockers than new , although back then i probably had a box of a 100+ used rockers to choose from. - i was of the opinion that the cam was usually not treated correctly (cheaper cams?) and that ate the rockers- but ive also seen the rockers lose their clean surface and if it gets a pit or surface imperfection toss it-- we never had any luck with aftermarket rockers-- used or nissan-- was all that was put in a motor after seeing many fail early .
would have to ask Andy or Dave for definitive answer-