New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Suspension, including wheel, tire and brake.
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Fred_L-P
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New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by Fred_L-P »

Hey guys, what do you think of the new Apex Engineered rear end upgrade?

http://www.apexengineered.com/store/p10 ... n_Kit.html

I am a professional engineer working in the automotive industry for a suspension company.
For a long time I've been thinking of a complete custom rear subframe and suspension to improve the limited 510 options and flaws. This is very similar to what I had in mind. It looks very good to me! I'm happy that the 510 is getting more and more aftermarket support.
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bertvorgon
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by bertvorgon »

Nice...question to be asked...what size exhaust pipe is accommodated in the square tube?
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Pedro
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by Pedro »

bertvorgon wrote: 10 May 2022 16:53 Nice...question to be asked...what size exhaust pipe is accommodated in the square tube?
That's actually a good question, is there room beside the diff to get an exhaust through?

Firstly, I think this is awesome that these guys have taken this on and have created this setup, props to them.
Secondly, I'm not an engineer, so grain of salt with any replies
Thirdly, the single heim joint to the front crossmember does worry me slightly in the event of a failure. Albeit unlikely to ever on a datsun that doesn't limited km's, but I think think either a 3rd attachment point similar to S chassis style would at least in my mind be a better option.
iceman510
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by iceman510 »

From the description:

This rear suspension kit also allows you to run up to a 3.5" diameter exhaust.
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bertvorgon
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by bertvorgon »

JEEZ...so much for my proof reading skills!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Pista_510
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by Pista_510 »

Conceptually this is excellent and, like others, I have also played around with similar designs along these lines in the past.

This design seems well resolved however I would be concerned about transferring a significant proportion of the cornering loads into the moustache bar supporting bolts and structure. The original Datsun IRS puts most of these loads into the cross member then floor structure (albeit some is shared, via the differential housing, to the moustache bar / boot floor) with the moustache bar sharing, supporting and controlling differential mass and the acceleration / deceleration reaction forces. I suspect some bracing of the differential support / lateral wish bone structure back to the mounting crossmember and/or beefing up the moustache bar bolts (and the structure they're in) would help out a lot but, I guess, with some impact on packaging exhaust, half-shafts, sway bars, etc

Wondering if the designers have any thoughts on that and if any physical prototype testing bears this out?

Overall nice design; one to watch with interest.
demo243
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by demo243 »

Excited to see more options for the 510. I know these guys have pretty good following in the Z world.

Definitely keeping this on my radar.
'71 4 Door - Street/AutoX/Track Day Romper - Carb'ed KA24DE
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jeffball610
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by jeffball610 »

I have contacted them to see what testing they have done and if they can accommodate "custom" setups. I have a Z31 R200 with CV axles and Z31 wheel bearing housings. They haven't responded to my questions, but another member said they have lot of experience with S30 stuff and it should hold up.
I have imagined a similar setup, and like you said, it conceptually works. I'd just like some test cars out there before committing fully. I would be happy to test this out, but I'm not sure I'm experienced enough to give good data. I do feel I push my car harder than most, so there might be something to gain by being a test mule.
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT2971R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs
Woznaldo
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by Woznaldo »

I’ve been looking at suspension options and in particular the JBC steering rack conversion x-beam and a rear beam with some adjustment. The trouble with the rear beam and trailing setup is even with adjustment, it’s still flawed.

Apex seem to have come up with an option that has a better start point and a huge amount of adjustment. I also think their front x-member is a good start point for a rack and pinion conversion too. I think I’m going to take the plunge!
loungin112
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by loungin112 »

Woznaldo wrote: 18 May 2022 04:44 I’ve been looking at suspension options and in particular the JBC steering rack conversion x-beam and a rear beam with some adjustment. The trouble with the rear beam and trailing setup is even with adjustment, it’s still flawed.

Apex seem to have come up with an option that has a better start point and a huge amount of adjustment. I also think their front x-member is a good start point for a rack and pinion conversion too. I think I’m going to take the plunge!
Do It!

Would love to see the install process, step by step, and the end result of the install.
Woznaldo
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by Woznaldo »

loungin112 wrote: 18 May 2022 12:05
Do It!

Would love to see the install process, step by step, and the end result of the install.
Well, the order went in so I guess we’ll see what happens!
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ostaylor
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by ostaylor »

Very interested to see how this turns out... please post updates!
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Owen
72 Datsun 510 2 door - 2.3 LZ with 280zx 5 speed
70 Datsun 510 2 door - SR20DET - PROJECT
64 Studebaker Daytona - Supercharged 289 4 speed
64 Studebaker Commander - 289 4 speed
65 Sunbeam Tiger MkI - 260 4 speed
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tycot1
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by tycot1 »

It will need to have a coilover, I wonder if the mount location is going to leave clearance in the wheelhouse for the coil. We have installed the Datsport coilovers on the factory control arm and they usually rub.
http://bigtimemotors.ca 1972 datsun 510 220 hp ka "couped", 1971 510 westwood champ gt4 '81& "83, 1979 550 hp trans am, 1962 cadillac hrdtp, 2005 subaru sti, 1999 triumph daytona 955i.
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jeffball610
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Re: New Apex Engineered rear suspension

Post by jeffball610 »

tycot1 wrote: 10 Jul 2022 12:32 It will need to have a coilover, I wonder if the mount location is going to leave clearance in the wheelhouse for the coil. We have installed the Datsport coilovers on the factory control arm and they usually rub.
I have SilverMine coilovers and there is no clearance needed. I'm not sure who else has systems other than T3 and Troy Ermish, but I don't think this is an issue any more.

I'm seriously considering their set up, but I can't get a hold of anyone to see if they will modify their setup for a R200 and Z31 hubs for CV axles.
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT2971R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs
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