Stu's 1972 4 Door

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Stu
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Location: Vancouver, WA USA

Sand blasting to find the yuck

Post by Stu »

Took the shell to a local blasting place and after talking to the owner/operator, decided to go with traditional sand blasting. I was worried about panel warp but he said that the wet makes it very hard to get out of some areas and that since I was only getting seams and window gasket areas blasted, he would turn the pressure down and not dwell anywhere. Only was an hour and was really just exploratory to see what was under some of the body filler.

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Not going to bore you with a bunch of clean metal but you can see where the right rear quarter was scabbed on. They spent all this time to replace the quarter panel but butchered in this part? This panel also has a ton of filler for some reason. I think I am committed to replacing this panel.

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The rear left has me debating if I want to replace the whole panel or try to repair this corner. It has been pounded within an inch of its life and is very thin in several spots. I'll see how I feel after I replace the right side and rely on my body shop class instructor's advice.

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Stu

72 4-door 510
Factory Five Racing Cobra
2005 Mini Cooper S
91 Ford F250 4x4 extended cab
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Stu
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Location: Vancouver, WA USA

Bodywork pre-check

Post by Stu »

I took the shell to the local community college that has a weekend bodyshop class I have taken before (not currently in session due to Covid), and my instructor believes that the repair was probably done in the mid-late 70s because of the brazing rather than MIG. He also looked a the color of the body filler and said "definitely 70s". It was like watching a forensics show where they know how long the victim has been dead by the decomposition.

He suggested to 'take it all off' and replace all of the panels (both quarters, trunk drops, side trunk gutters, tail light surround, and lower valance) at the same time so it can all be adjusted before being welded into place. He said if I start at one side and go to the other, I have a very good chance of the last panel not fitting well. Better to spread it all out and line it up at once. I will most likely do the 'sides' then use the taillight surround and lower valance to set the 'width'. It is going to be the most nerve wracking part of this project. I have rebuilt lots of mechanical components and painted several cars, but I have never replaced the entire butt end of a vehicle.

Going to tackle rebuilding all of the door hinges first so that I have correct body lines to reference to when putting the rear sheet metal back on. Might melt some lead out too just so I can feel like I have 'started'.
Stu

72 4-door 510
Factory Five Racing Cobra
2005 Mini Cooper S
91 Ford F250 4x4 extended cab
slowerthantime
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Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by slowerthantime »

Hey Stu, great work on the car and thanks for documenting it so well.

I tackled a similar replacement of body work: rockers, rear quarters, wheel houses, trunk drops, trunk gutters, tail light panel and rear valence. I agree with your approach of doing it all at once as there are so many alignments to consider. In addition to fitting the doors, I would also suggest fitting the trunk lid and using the front quarters as an additional reference for the body line.

I found the fitment of the new tail light panel to be the most challenging; both because of it's shape and profile and because it is where most of the new parts tie together. If I were to do this again, I would try to leave to original trunk gutters in place as it might provide a more accurate/ original reference point toward the rear of the car. I found that by the time I had repaired the bottom of the C-pillars (to restore the original vents) and the edge of the trunk floor, the rear corners were a long way from any original reference points. I made my biggest mistake in the passenger rear corner; got some shrinkage in the corner that was a pain to correct.

If you are using the GT Muscle Car parts (the ones from Futofab), they all need some fitment work. There are differences in the profiles of the supersonic line and the top shoulder of the rear quarter that you might want to consider. Harryagain went to significant effort to address this but that was beyond my pay grade.

With all of the trial assembly, adjustment, reassembly you will likely have the panels on and off many times. I ended up using screws, clecos and every vice grip and clamp I could get my hands on.

With the quality of the work you do, I'm really looking forward to seeing this come together.
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Stu
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Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by Stu »

slowerthantime wrote: 17 Apr 2021 10:14 Hey Stu, great work on the car and thanks for documenting it so well.

I tackled a similar replacement of body work: rockers, rear quarters, wheel houses, trunk drops, trunk gutters, tail light panel and rear valence. I agree with your approach of doing it all at once as there are so many alignments to consider. In addition to fitting the doors, I would also suggest fitting the trunk lid and using the front quarters as an additional reference for the body line.

I found the fitment of the new tail light panel to be the most challenging... SNIP

With the quality of the work you do, I'm really looking forward to seeing this come together.
Thanks for the advice. I will leave the trunk lid in place if I can for a reference. My trunk gutters sides are pretty much garbage and I want to replace. Any thoughts on tackling this? Maybe leave them in place, fit 'everything else', then slip the gutters in.

All my panels are the Muscle GT since finding complete rear that is not garbage is near impossible, so I will just have to live with some of the shortcomings unless I get crazy(ier) and decide to reshape stuff. I am planning on a white (18 or 904) so it may not show the supersonic line deficiencies as much as a dark car.

Since I can't get some of the sheet metal parts right now, I'm doing all of the hinges so the doors are in the correct place during body work.
Last edited by Stu on 23 Apr 2021 13:25, edited 2 times in total.
Stu

72 4-door 510
Factory Five Racing Cobra
2005 Mini Cooper S
91 Ford F250 4x4 extended cab
Delfizzixx
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Joined: 28 Feb 2021 16:45

Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by Delfizzixx »

Anyone having any luck finding a tail light panel?
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Stu
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Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by Stu »

Delfizzixx wrote: 23 Apr 2021 07:05 Anyone having any luck finding a tail light panel?
Everyone is pretty much out of everything. The pandemic is not helping. Maybe we will get lucky and they will start shipping sooner than later...
Stu

72 4-door 510
Factory Five Racing Cobra
2005 Mini Cooper S
91 Ford F250 4x4 extended cab
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Stu
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Location: Vancouver, WA USA

Datsun 510 door hinge rebuild

Post by Stu »

Like most 510s, my front door hinges were pretty worn out. Both the bushings and the links were pretty thrashed. It was like all of the previous owners had never lubricated any of the front hinges, but the back doors had never been opened and are perfect. I was BS'ing with Wayne Davis from Australia on FB, and he mentioned that he sold a kit that has oversized link pins so that the spring links can be drilled larger and reused. I had originally bought a simple pin/bushing set from Troy Ermish, but my links need to be fixed also.

I want to have my door hinges nice and tight, so that I can align the doors when doing bodywork so it all looks straight during bodywork and after paint, so I am doing them early in the bodywork process.

I first started on the right side front door (passenger) as my experiment. Getting these things apart is a total pain in the ass and I could not get my vice tight enough to be able to pound out the pins. I built a fixture out of 1/4" steel that is slotted into another 1/4" piece so it could be clamped into my vice and force applied without twisting and moving. The fixture allows both top and bottom hinges to be mounted up/down so that pins can be driven out and back in.

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I figured out that my valve spring compression tool worked well for removing the springs without them shooting across the shop or pinching my fingers. I am planning on not installing the springs back into the hinges until I am done aligning the doors so I don't have to fight them. I discovered that if I compress the spring in the vice and use strong zip ties on the inner coils, you can easily put the spring back into the hinge then cut the zip ties and it pops into place. This should save me from scratching the crap out of everything after painting.

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Some of the pins came out relatively easily with my air hammer but I had to drill several of the main and link pins. I'm lucky to have a good drill index so can sneak up on making the hole bigger until I could collapse the pin. I removed the links first, then the main pin. Assembly is the reverse.

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The links/washer have to drilled out with 9/32, 21/64, and 23/64 (there are two versions of the end of the 'spring' arm and mine is the big hollow rivet version)

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I thought that priming and painting prior to assembly would make for less work later, but I just ended up banging the shit out of the paint. On my driver side, I decided to only bead blast and prime before assembly. On the rear hinges (did not disassemble), I bead blasted, rinsed well, dried, then primed only.

After the bushings were pressed in, the pin was way too tight, so I ended up running a drill through just to align the holes so the new pin just slipped in and rotated. The outer flats on the bushings needed to be filed a tiny amount so they would fit between the ears on the other half of the hinge. I also drilled out some material where the new pins go so that they would press completely since they are less collapsible than the original pins (just a tiny amount of metal, be careful)

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a socket works well to push the washer down before flaring the pin

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drive in the main pin

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Then the end pins

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all done

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Stu

72 4-door 510
Factory Five Racing Cobra
2005 Mini Cooper S
91 Ford F250 4x4 extended cab
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Heinrich
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Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by Heinrich »

well done!!!
Progress is slow, but it is progress non the less.
cwd240z
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Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by cwd240z »

Great write up on replacing all of the hinge bushings. How would one get that bushing kit from Wayne Davis and any info on what the price was? I'm curious how the bushing kit differs from the one sold from Z Car Depot, https://zcardepot.com/products/door-hin ... 5365364849

I hope you can get some sheet metal soon so you can continue making progress on the body
Chris
'71 510 4-Door Sedan
'76 280z
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Stu
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Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by Stu »

cwd240z wrote: 10 Jun 2021 19:37 Great write up on replacing all of the hinge bushings. How would one get that bushing kit from Wayne Davis and any info on what the price was? I'm curious how the bushing kit differs from the one sold from Z Car Depot, https://zcardepot.com/products/door-hin ... 5365364849

I hope you can get some sheet metal soon so you can continue making progress on the body
You can probably find Wayne on FB 510 pages like “510 Again”. I can’t remember the price, but the Z Car Depot kit is a pretty good deal since it includes the links (especially if you don’t have a large assortment of drills) I think Z Car Depot was out of them when I wanted to buy parts.

I also am hoping I can find sheet metal soon. I am keeping myself busy by stripping and epoxy sealing the doors. I forget how many nooks and crannies a door has that need to be sanded.
Stu

72 4-door 510
Factory Five Racing Cobra
2005 Mini Cooper S
91 Ford F250 4x4 extended cab
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Stu
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Location: Vancouver, WA USA

One door at a time

Post by Stu »

Since I am doing a complete color change and the previous respray (dark green over original frog green) was done very poorly, I pretty much have to get back down to the factory primer and/or metal. I also want to be able to paint the passenger compartment/door jambs and the 'inside' of the doors, then rehang before painting the outside. I am taking a weekend autobody class in the fall and you can not leave anything over the week. Transporting the car completely taken apart will be a total hassle, therefore I am trying to get the doors and some other parts done prior to class starting.

Welded up the assortment of holes from previous mirror combinations and filled/sanded some small low spots after hammer/dolly the best I could.

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Sanding the window channel and frame is a giant time sink but using wire wheels, scotchbrite pads, and sandpaper, I got it all cleaned up.

Had a not-too-hot day and set up my 'booth'. Hanging the door by the drain holes worked well. 20 oz of Omni MP172 epoxy sealer (black) followed by 24 oz of urethane high build sandable primer (gray).

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One down, three to go.

Also cleaning the door latch hardware as I take stuff apart. I really like my ultrasonic cleaner.

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Stu

72 4-door 510
Factory Five Racing Cobra
2005 Mini Cooper S
91 Ford F250 4x4 extended cab
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eastbaysolo_73
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Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by eastbaysolo_73 »

Killer work Stu !
1970 2 door sr20det cookie cutter build
My build thread
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30772
Nor Cal Meng !
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cartel
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Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by cartel »

latch came out nice.. what's the ultrasonic size? I had one years ago for fixing water damage fones.. haven't replaced it since it died..
Mike Gibson
Datsun: 71 dime; 73 Z ; GT3 240
Other: 65 + 67 Mustang ; 03 murcie
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Stu
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Re: Stu's 1972 4 Door

Post by Stu »

cartel wrote: 11 Jul 2021 23:31 latch came out nice.. what's the ultrasonic size? I had one years ago for fixing water damage fones.. haven't replaced it since it died..
It is the small one from Harbor Fright. It needed to be better sealed so I did that after the 90 day warranty. Longer parts have to hang out then get flipped.
Stu

72 4-door 510
Factory Five Racing Cobra
2005 Mini Cooper S
91 Ford F250 4x4 extended cab
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Stu
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Posts: 234
Joined: 02 Oct 2019 19:32
Location: Vancouver, WA USA

More doors and starting autobody class

Post by Stu »

Been a while since I updated, but body work is boorrrrring and even worse to read about.

Basically I have got all four doors sealed and in primer so they can be hung back on the car before I start replacing all of the rear sheet metal. Want to make sure I have good sight lines before cutting stuff off the back.

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Driver door was a bit more beat up but wanted to at least get it sealed and in primer. I'll probably redo some of the metal work once the door is back on the car and I can see the lines in relation to the rest of the car. Here is how much filler I removed before welding holes and getting the metal in better shape.

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I started my weekend autobody class at Clackamas Community College. The school has full programs for autobody and mechanic certification so they are fully set up. Basically it is five saturdays (every other Saturday) with close to 11 hours of shop time each each session. I am exhausted when I get home. It comes out to about $500 a quarter ($100 a session) and previous cars I have painted take at least two quarters. You can not leave any of your projects at the school, so I have to pack everything in the trailer.

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Got the hood all sealed and in primer, started welding the seams in the door jambs/rocker panels, and removed all of the old lead from around the front windshield and rear pillar vents. So I don't need too much filler (fiber reinforced) at these points, I built up the area with weld. The welds are not pretty but don't care about a bit of reinforced filler in these areas.

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Hopefully I'll be taking the car back to the sand blaster this week to get the drip rails (already dug out the sealant), door jambs, and rocker panels blasted to get everything clean. I don't trust blasting on the larger panels, since they are so thin and will warp, but these box sections are tough and should be fine and blasting is way easier than trying to sand all of the detail in these areas.
Stu

72 4-door 510
Factory Five Racing Cobra
2005 Mini Cooper S
91 Ford F250 4x4 extended cab
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