Another 72 510 build in So Cal... not going for looks

[Silver04RS]

Hello.

My Name is Travis, I'm a long time 510 fan and have been lurking around on this site for quite sometime. Im currently 29 and have wanted to build a 510 since I was a kid but its just never happened. At 16 I bought a chevy s-10 and dropd it chrome wheels thinking it was sooo cool. I went from that to a few other trucks and finally found my way to a Mazda Protege' 5 wagon... and thats when things clicked.

I had grown up riding and racing dirt bikes, going to the desert, offroading but had never really goten into fast car (or slow ones that handled well) So when I got my MP5 I got my first taste of what it was like to have a car that handled semi well.

I kept this for a couple years and then while living in Mammoth CA I sold it and bought a 2004 Subaru 2.5RS. For those of you not up on your Subaru's this was like a WRX but with no Turbo. I bought it as it was good in the snow and tons of fun to drive. I ended up spending more time on the mountain roads at night than I did snowboarding and this car really made me who I am today. When I moved back home to So Cal I hooked up with a team of guys that go by The Gravel Crew and they were a bunch of rally nuts that were really fun. I built my RS up to do Rally-X (Auto-X on dirt) and also just for going out and playing on dirt roads.















This one is at McKinny Motersports (kinda cool to me since they do a lot of Datsun stuff as well)






I had this car for a few years and then went to work at Muellerized working with EVO's and other DSM's. The Pressure finally got to me and I parted way with my non turbo car rather than swapping it due to CA smog regulations. The result was a red EVO 9 GSR and it was a blast.

The EVO was mild compared to the Subie with just a Turbo back, coilover's, a boost controller with a tune, and a rear sway bar and some bushings. It was a really great car though and killed it on track days.





I worked at Muellerized for a bit over a year and ended up selling my EVO as it was lots of $$$$ and I wasnt able to afford track days with it.

That led to a miata... or 3 or 4

My Miata that I really loved was a 91 Salvaged title 1.6 liter car.

Lotus Elise seats so I can fit (Im 6 fooot tall)







And at a track day coming in a bit hot... No I dont drift or plan to drift my 510





and my Tacoma...



the 85 4Runner (sold to fun my 510)





and a ford Festiva???








And that lads to to where I am today-


I haven't had a fun car in about 2 years. I race RC cars at a semi pro level and it takes most of my time and I havent really had the funds to do something cool. I have dreamed of 510's forever and have yet to buy one... well until yesterday


My search for a 510 has been a long one. I started looking a few years ago and never found "THE ONE"

well about 3 weeks ago I found her. It was in Reno on CL and I contacted the seller but he said he had a list of people who had called first that he wanted to show the car to. I told him Id send him a depoist on the spot and pay full asking price for his car which I could pick up tomorrow. He said sorry but he wanted to honor his list of people so I said OK. 2 days later he called me saying that the people had flaked out and he still had the car for sale. I offered to get in my Scion and drive the 9 hours up to get it but he told me there were still other people

3 weeks of this and he finally sells it to someone else... I was mad

So I started looking at other cars i my area that were cheaper, not as nice, needed some love... whatever you want to call it.

This is what I found

1972 Datsun 510 2 door
1.8 with around 6,000 miles on motor
SU Carbs
SSS Head
5 Speed Dogleg Tranny
Runs good







Shes got some bondo on her, a ghetto flat black paint job, tires that are so old the tread is cracked and breaking off, and she sags in the left rear.

But it runs good and doesn't have much rust.

My plan for this car is to gut it slap in a RB25 with a 10,000 shot of NOS and join the NHRA cause 510s are the best drag car in the world!!!


My real plan is to keep it driving and slowly work through the issues keeping it from being reliable. First things on my list are wheels and tires and rear coilovers. Im going to go with the BRE Replica Libra Wheels as I love the way 13's look and I dont plan on having big brakes on this car anytime soon



For the rear Coilovers I'm grabbing some from Ermish Racing later this week. They seem to be a good unit and wont brake the bank at the same time.

Once those things are knocked out should have had time to go over her and see if there are any emergency items that need to be fixed and if so they will go to the top of my list.

If nothing is found it will be on to suspension and bushing, minor brake upgrades, new seats, and making this motor rip

Last on the list is paint and body work.. I have never done any and plan on doing most of it myself


Now to get this build thread going -
Travis

[Dave Patten]

Travis,
Welcome aboard. That is quite the collection of cars you've had over the years. The rally influence is something I am familiar with. I built a rollcage for Dan Cook's 510 to compete in Rally America events.

The BRE replica Libres are VTO Retro 4's. The only 13" size they come in that will fit the 510 is 13x7, but it has to be a 510 with modified fenders as they are a +0 offset.

Given your age and car history, you've probably never tried to buy a long lasting 13" street tire for a 7" rim. There are limited options today. The only one I have found is the Federal Formoza 205/60-13. This is not a performance tire, but will have good tire life. If you want a high performance/DOT slick look at the Toyo's both the RA-1 and R888. They come in 206/60-13 with a tread wear of 100. Not a long life tire but one that is pretty grippy. I use the 205/60-13 RA-1 on my 1200 when I race it at vintage events.

One other option for a semi performance street tire is a Federal 595 in 205/60-13. These are a higher perfomance tire than the Formoza, but I wouldn't consider them a high performance street tire. I have yet to locate a typical retail source for these tires. The Federal 595 is used as the spec tire for the US Legends car series (5/8 scale replicas of antique racecars with 1100cc bike engines.) They can be bought from Legend car dealers for around $100/each.

Today, most everyone goes with 15" or 16" wheels because there is a better tire selection. The Retro 4 does come in a 15x7 +18 that can be installed on a non flared 510 with a 205 or smaller tire. Depending on the specific tire and width, the fenders will likely need to be rolled. It will be tight even with a 195 if you don't.

Now if you are looking to stay with the 13x7 Libre. You are going to want to flare the car. The BRE type bubble flares will be enough to cover the 205/60-13 on a +0 wheel. Check out our web site http://www.FutoFab.com We have about every style of flared fender you could want for a 510.

It looks like you've got a great start, enjoy! And don't be afraid to search thru this website for information. The search tool here will uncover an unbeliveable amount of excellant info.

The build threads are a great place to look for ideas too.

[okayfine]

Travis, will you be up-rating the front springs to match the rears soonest? Without info on what you have up front, bolting on rear coilovers with (assumably) ~200in/lb rear rates will give you a very tail-happy car with stock front rates. Perhaps too tail-happy. Generally recommended to start with equal rates F/R and then modify to suit your particulars.

[Silver04RS]

Travis, will you be up-rating the front springs to match the rears soonest? Without info on what you have up front, bolting on rear coilovers with (assumably) ~200in/lb rear rates will give you a very tail-happy car with stock front rates. Perhaps too tail-happy. Generally recommended to start with equal rates F/R and then modify to suit your particulars.

I do plan on upgrading the fronts as well but 1st thing on my list is making the car road worthy. I do understand that having stiffer rates out back will make her a bit tail happy but as long as shes not in a guard rail I should be OK

With funds permiting (as with everything) I will be going to coilovers as well up front

Travis,
Welcome aboard. That is quite the collection of cars you've had over the years. The rally influence is something I am familiar with. I built a rollcage for Dan Cook's 510 to compete in Rally America events.

The BRE replica Libres are VTO Retro 4's. The only 13" size they come in that will fit the 510 is 13x7, but it has to be a 510 with modified fenders as they are a +0 offset.

Given your age and car history, you've probably never tried to buy a long lasting 13" street tire for a 7" rim. There are limited options today. The only one I have found is the Federal Formoza 205/60-13. This is not a performance tire, but will have good tire life. If you want a high performance/DOT slick look at the Toyo's both the RA-1 and R888. They come in 206/60-13 with a tread wear of 100. Not a long life tire but one that is pretty grippy. I use the 205/60-13 RA-1 on my 1200 when I race it at vintage events.

One other option for a semi performance street tire is a Federal 595 in 205/60-13. These are a higher perfomance tire than the Formoza, but I wouldn't consider them a high performance street tire. I have yet to locate a typical retail source for these tires. The Federal 595 is used as the spec tire for the US Legends car series (5/8 scale replicas of antique racecars with 1100cc bike engines.) They can be bought from Legend car dealers for around $100/each.

Today, most everyone goes with 15" or 16" wheels because there is a better tire selection. The Retro 4 does come in a 15x7 +18 that can be installed on a non flared 510 with a 205 or smaller tire. Depending on the specific tire and width, the fenders will likely need to be rolled. It will be tight even with a 195 if you don't.

Now if you are looking to stay with the 13x7 Libre. You are going to want to flare the car. The BRE type bubble flares will be enough to cover the 205/60-13 on a +0 wheel. Check out our web site http://www.FutoFab.com We have about every style of flared fender you could want for a 510.

It looks like you've got a great start, enjoy! And don't be afraid to search thru this website for information. The search tool here will uncover an unbeliveable amount of excellant info.

The build threads are a great place to look for ideas too.

I remember Dan's 510 very well, always one of my favorite cars at the events.

Thaks for bringing to my attention that a 7" wheel will not fit under a stock fender with a 0 offset. I thought I had found some 195's and was under the impression these would work with stock fenders but if the offset is too far out I might just be wasting my time and money.

I have thought about going to 15's but I just love the way 13s look on this car and Im not looking for a super low profile tire.

These are the 2 tires I have found (although they might be discontinued as I dont have them in my hand)

http://www.sumitomotire.com/assets/prod ... 200_sm.pdf
http://www.onlinetires.com/search/vehic ... age_1.html

At this point I was hoping to stay with a stock fenderd car rather than flaring it but I might just need to jump in head first. The Rear Quarters on my car have some bondo on them already so I wouldnt be cutting a straight car so Im not too worried about it

Thanks for the link and the info

Travis

[okayfine]

A 510 already has some inherent drop-throttle oversteer from stock, due to the geo of the rear trailing arms and weight shift exacerbating it. Just something to be aware of so it doesn't catch you out.

[speeder]

Nice introduction. The pics are great!

You might consider the VTO's in 14". I'm running 185/60 14's on the 5.5" set. They fit perfectly under stock flares and provide plenty of grip with Dunlop Direzza's. Not too low profile. Only drawback to the 14" is that tires are becoming tougher to find. Hopefully Dunlop keeps up the good work, because the Direzzas are excellent.

I'm impressed with your willingness to go to a 40 year old car from modern machinery such as an Evo. I'm sure you'll appreciate the simplicity.

[Silver04RS]

Nice introduction. The pics are great!

You might consider the VTO's in 14". I'm running 185/60 14's on the 5.5" set. They fit perfectly under stock flares and provide plenty of grip with Dunlop Direzza's. Not too low profile. Only drawback to the 14" is that tires are becoming tougher to find. Hopefully Dunlop keeps up the good work, because the Direzzas are excellent.

I'm impressed with your willingness to go to a 40 year old car from modern machinery such as an Evo. I'm sure you'll appreciate the simplicity.

The thought of going to an older car scares me quite a bit. I have never done any body work, I dont know anything about carbs, I dont have any frineds with 510's (Yet), and Im sometimes a bit timid to try new things even though I should be confident in what I am doing. Buying this car was a big stepping stone for me and I am really looking forward to see what it brings.

Thanks for the input on the tires. I dont know if Im just being stubborn or if it will soon turn out that I am just being stupid and ignoring the warning that you all keep telling me. I just have this thought in the back of my head that this car needs to be on 13's and it wont leave. On top of that I have done quite a bit of research the past couple days and tracked down multiple cars on 7" wheels with 0 offset and I think I can make it work.... and if it doesn't, its time to flare the car.

Going to flares on a nice 510 40 years after it was built seems like a bad ideas but this car looks as if it has had a quater panel replaced already so cutting into it isn't blasphemy. I think I can massage the fender a little and et it under there but only time will tell.

A 510 already has some inherent drop-throttle oversteer from stock, due to the geo of the rear trailing arms and weight shift exacerbating it. Just something to be aware of so it doesn't catch you out.

Thanks for the heads up... sounds like Ill be cutting throttle mid corner to have some fun in my future


Tonight I didnt get much done with the car. I stopped by AutoZone on the way home and grabbed some bulbs where the lights didnt work and to my surprise they actually lit back up

40 years old and all my turn signals, brake lights, and headlights work.... Im kinda impressed

Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come


I decided to take a couple vacation days at work so I will have a 4 day weekend. Hopefully I can get all the paperwork done and get her on the road by this weekend

-Travis

[510wizard]

After running 13" Libres for 20 plus years and finding that there is hardly any tires available that are a good compromise between grip and wear, I finally went to a larger rim. The supply of smaller tires gets worse every year.

[S15DET]

Practicality-be-dammed, there's a certain value in being the only qwirky guy in the crowd running 13's on his qwirky old car. I get that, kinda a "I'm past the-hellaflush/stance/fatlace" position. I, too, have had thoughts of going back to 13's, but won't.

Since there's apparently no compromise tire, then please choose the ultra sticky route over the ultra-not-sticky route. Hell, run Hoosiers (with white(whispers yellow) letters)!

Welcome!

[Silver04RS]

Practicality-be-dammed, there's a certain value in being the only qwirky guy in the crowd running 13's on his qwirky old car. I get that, kinda a "I'm past the-hellaflush/stance/fatlace" position. I, too, have had thoughts of going back to 13's, but won't.

Since there's apparently no compromise tire, then please choose the ultra sticky route over the ultra-not-sticky route. Hell, run Hoosiers (with white(whispers yellow) letters)!

Welcome!

After running 13" Libres for 20 plus years and finding that there is hardly any tires available that are a good compromise between grip and wear, I finally went to a larger rim. The supply of smaller tires gets worse every year.

Well maybe Ill jump on the 20"+ bandwagon someday and finally fit in with the cool kids.... hell, my mom says Im cool so it must be true, right?

You guys have me kicking myself right now... My only problem is I cant find wheels that look right on the car Except for some Volk TE37's (and I cant afford those right now)

Just give it time... Ill give newb advice someday about how I used to have 13's as well but now run 15s cause tire choices suck.... but I have to have 13's first to do so

Thanks
TB

[okayfine]

It's not like they don't make 13" tires. It's just your selection that will be lacking. 14" are getting the same way.

Wats look great on any 510. But rim choice is up there with color choice as far as preference. VTO also makes the LeMans replica, but they don't start 'em until 15".

[S15DET]

These are local to me, 13x6.
But it looks like one has a huge chip missing, that's not in the description!!

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/pts/3372396306.html

[Silver04RS]

It's not like they don't make 13" tires. It's just your selection that will be lacking. 14" are getting the same way.

Wats look great on any 510. But rim choice is up there with color choice as far as preference. VTO also makes the LeMans replica, but they don't start 'em until 15".

OKAYFINE.... you guys win (all y'alls, not just okayfine)

Went to order tires today from the places where I thought I had found tires... FML


So ya... why fight it

15's it is

[Byron510]

It's not like they don't make 13" tires. It's just your selection that will be lacking. 14" are getting the same way.

Wats look great on any 510. But rim choice is up there with color choice as far as preference. VTO also makes the LeMans replica, but they don't start 'em until 15".

OKAYFINE.... you guys win (all y'alls, not just okayfine)

Went to order tires today from the places where I thought I had found tires... FML


So ya... why fight it

15's it is

I feel the pain with your decision. I to held out as long as possible. But up here in the Great White North, 13" tires pretty much were unobtainium as of 4 years ago. When Dave at Futofab announced that he would be selling new Libra replicas in 15, I was one of the first to jump inboard.

A picture of the Bronze can be found 3/4 of the way down this page with 13X7, zero offset Libra's.


http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=555

And a picture of how it looks with the 15X7's, zero offset - beautiful photo courtesy of Indy below;


http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=825

Byron

[S15DET]

Good choice, go with the VTO's from Futofab, either the 8 or the 4, both look great on a 510!